How to get a job (or not)

[warpus]

The thing I noticed when I was looking for a job is that personal contact through phone or face to face made all the difference. When you present yourself to your potential future employer he sees you're not afraid to introduce yourself, and he can place a voice/face to the application.

Every interview I got, I got through contacting the company on the phone, or dropping in. I was surprised that many personnel managers were willing to free up some time without having made an appointment

Yeah, from my experience the more personal you make your application, the better your chances. That's why I correlated sites like monster.ca with "they don't work, they're not personal enough!", but downtown is right about taking the size of the company into consideration.

 

[downtown]

Yeah, from my experience the more personal you make your application, the better your chances. That's why I correlated sites like monster.ca with "they don't work, they're not personal enough!", but downtown is right about taking the size of the company into consideration.

Yeah, there is nothing wrong with email follow ups. Certainly, your BEST chance of getting a job is via an employee referral. If you know somebody, your application goes right to the top, virtually anywhere...so building a good social network is one of the most important things you can do.

The degree to which you can personalize stuff depends so much on the company size though. My firm has over 3,000 employees...and when I worked for Careerbuilder, I personally handled over 100 job openings. If everybody called me to check in on their application, I could never get anybody hired.

 

[Synobun]

I was only a little older when I got my first published work. If you write fiction, the chances of you getting an actual publishing house to take a novel of yours unsolicited and with no previous experience are almost nil. I wrote to some newspapers and magazines to get work as a "stringer", which is an easy way to get clips (where you write articles or op-eds for very little money). For fiction, I think your best bet is to try some lit journals. Some specialize in young authors. Every large university has one, but give the Googlemobile a try and see if any come up for HS age kids.

Online freelancing is a decent way to make some extra money, but I don't think it is typically very helpful for building an audience.

What about self-publishing online? From the likes of Createspace and a couple others I've scrounged up over the last few months? Is it possible to grow an audience via this method (though all advertising will have to be done manually) and eventually viable to produce a portfolio for a publishing house, or is sending short stories and articles into journals and magazines/newspapers really the only way to go?

 

[GenMarshall]

I have not gotten an interview in ages, what am I doing wrong? I sent resumes and apply online.

Also, my first question on this thread apperently went unnoticed.

 

[aelf]

As far as I know, writers (which I distinguish here from journalists) need some fame. If you have plenty of fans, you'd have publishers wanting to cash in. Probably the only way to get fans to begin with is to put your work up for free. But where you put your work up is crucial. You need traffic, or else all is for naught. I heard that there are people who have become published writers by first writing fan fiction for popular 'universes'. If you start off by writing completely original works, I imagine it may be tough getting attention because most people might not want to read it, unless you find distribution channels that can give you access to a significant number of readers.

 

[warpus]

I have not gotten an interview in ages, what am I doing wrong? I sent resumes and apply online.

Also, my first question on this thread apperently went unnoticed.

Have you had your resume proofread by someone? Is it 1-2 pages long and concise? Did you custom write a cover letter for each application?

I have always had trouble getting interviews by applying to jobs on job sites.. but maybe I was just doing it wrong.. Had far better luck applying directly.

 

[GenMarshall]

Have you had your resume proofread by someone? Is it 1-2 pages long and concise? Did you custom write a cover letter for each application?

I only have one page functional (The main reason why i asked if going from a standard chromological to a functional reume for a long term unemployed individual like myself is a good idea, yet apperently the quesion got ignored) resume (I only had one job in the past five years) and I have no cover letter.

 

[Synobun]

As far as I know, writers (which I distinguish here from journalists) need some fame. If you have plenty of fans, you'd have publishers wanting to cash in. Probably the only way to get fans to begin with is to put your work up for free. But where you put your work up is crucial. You need traffic, or else all is for naught. I heard that there are people who have become published writers by first writing fan fiction for popular 'universes'. If you start off by writing completely original works, I imagine it may be tough getting attention because most people might not want to read it, unless you find distribution channels that can give you access to a significant number of readers.

I'd like to stay away from fanfic, as I usually feel terrible writing works about something that isn't even mine. In a case of text role play I am fine with it, but not as a published work (even if it's published in a place dedicated to fanfic), however thank you for the audience view. Would a method such as putting up full-blown novels up for 10 dollars on a free publisher online (as linked in the previous post of mine) and also having a blog of free short stories be a good method for generating audience?

I only have one page functional (The main reason why i asked if going from a standard chromological to a functional reume for a long term unemployed individual like myself is a good idea, yet apperently the quesion got ignored) resume (I only had one job in the past five years) and I have no cover letter.

If resumes aren't cutting it for you, try going to some really low-key employers in your town/city, places where you can walk in and talk to the big boss-man himself directly. A lot of these places only ask for your resume as a reference, but if you go out of your way to talk to them first you have a good chance of getting hired, or at least getting close. That is how I landed a job in a convenience store a year or so back. I did not bother bringing in a resume until the boss specifically asked for one, before then it was strictly talking.

I know working in a convenience store or another very low-key place might not be a preference of yours, but it is something to get you doing your first steps in filling up that resume of yours and also letters of recommendations. And you can't forget the money you generate working there as well, most obscure places don't particularly have a lot of staff and you will find that if you show yourself to be loyal and responsible (not to mention being effective) at the workplace, you may actually find yourself getting long and often hours (I'm talking about 8 hour shifts standing on your feet at least 4 days a week) compared to the usual 5 hour shifts you'd get.

 

[squall78]

CivGeneral: What type of job are you looking for? Have you been in school for the past 5 years, or any training?

Also did you get my pm?

 

[downtown]

Functional Resumes for the long term unemployed. Is it more advantaged to use it over the traditional resume?

You should only use a functional resume if you have specific skills that may not show up in your traditional resume. "Office Management" isn't a specific skill..."hanging drywall", or "C++ Programming" might be. Your long term unemployment is going to be an issue no matter what kind of resume you have.

The most important thing for you, or anybody who has been out of work for a while and isn't skilled labor, is to get some kind of consistant job or volunteering experience, ANY KIND, to demonstrate that you are realiable and capable of following things through. I sent you three different temp agency addresses. Did you call any of them?

What about self-publishing online? From the likes of Createspace and a couple others I've scrounged up over the last few months? Is it possible to grow an audience via this method (though all advertising will have to be done manually) and eventually viable to produce a portfolio for a publishing house, or is sending short stories and articles into journals and magazines/newspapers really the only way to go?

You can, although my personal experience in the publishing industry leads me to think that lit journals may be a better fit. It depends on what you want to write about, and your target audience, I suppose. If you can get an audience of people who also aren't trying to hawk books themselves, (which I suspect is part of the problem with createspace), even better.

You can also self-publish. If you can sell books yourself, a publishing house will be more likely to buy you up.

I have not gotten an interview in ages, what am I doing wrong? I sent resumes and apply online.

Also, my first question on this thread apperently went unnoticed.

You are likely either not applying to enough jobs, or not applying to jobs where you are qualified.

I'll be totally real with you CivG. You have been unemployed for over a year. To the best of my knowledge, you are not skilled labor. On paper, you have not demonstrated you can be counted upon. You have my email, you can always send me your resume and I can tweak it for you.

For you, my advice has not changed. You need to suck up your pride, and start applying for entry level retail, food service, and temp labor. Call up those temp agencies. Show you can get some basic work and stick to it...holiday retail hiring is stepping up right now, so you may be able to get a job that way. Once you do that, other oppertunities will follow.

 

[galdre]

I only have one page functional (The main reason why i asked if going from a standard chromological to a functional reume for a long term unemployed individual like myself is a good idea, yet apperently the quesion got ignored) resume (I only had one job in the past five years) and I have no cover letter.

Not sure what kinds of jobs you are applying to, but some employers will not look at a resume if it doesn't have a cover letter (this comes down to the individual recruiter usually; never have understood this myself since cover letters are not applicable for many jobs)

Also, it's apparently becoming more common for employers to ignore resumes of anyone who has been out of work. A functional resume (instead of a chronological one) might help, but a recruiter who is swamped with resumes (which many are) will likely ignore a resume without the chronology - if you do a functional resume, make sure you show how much time you worked at each job so they still have a sense of your experience, even if not the exact dates

 

[Synobun]

You can, although my personal experience in the publishing industry leads me to think that lit journals may be a better fit. It depends on what you want to write about, and your target audience, I suppose. If you can get an audience of people who also aren't trying to hawk books themselves, (which I suspect is part of the problem with createspace), even better.

You can also self-publish. If you can sell books yourself, a publishing house will be more likely to buy you up.

Thanks. I realize that there are a lot of people on createspace looking for people to buy their books on that specific site, but I wouldn't even try to bother by advertising on there. I'd stick to literature message boards or message boards that I am active on (such as this one). I've experienced all too much the frustration of signing onto a site and having at least ten notifications of people copy pasting something that they expect me to go along with.

Unfortunately I cannot sell books entirely by myself unless I go through a publisher like createspace. They print when bought, and you don't have to make a down payment, which is absolutely great for someone like me who is broke and isn't capable of doing manual labour work in the relevant area.

Thanks again.

 

[GenMarshall]

How am I unskilled labor when I hold two degrees and working on a third?!

 

[warpus]

Not sure what kinds of jobs you are applying to, but some employers will not look at a resume if it doesn't have a cover letter (this comes down to the individual recruiter usually; never have understood this myself since cover letters are not applicable for many jobs)

Yeah, you gotta have a custom cover letter. Make sure it's clear that you custom wrote it for that particular job, it will really help you stand out (I think).

 

[Synobun]

How am I unskilled labor when I hold two degrees and working on a third?!

Experience, Civ. You need experience, and it needs to be relatively recent. Employers don't care about what you've done in the last decade unless the time from then and now is filled with other jobs, even if it's volunteer work. An education is useless if you haven't utilized it in the resume.

 

[aelf]

I'd like to stay away from fanfic, as I usually feel terrible writing works about something that isn't even mine. In a case of text role play I am fine with it, but not as a published work (even if it's published in a place dedicated to fanfic), however thank you for the audience view.

I think there's nothing wrong with fan fiction (and I say this as as someone who doesn't like fan fiction, apart from the masterful Doom: The Repercussions of Evil). Generally there is no legal (or moral) issue with fan fiction, although I've also heard that fan fiction writers who go on to become published authors would typically remove the works that they have put up themselves, probably just to stay on the safe side.

Would a method such as putting up full-blown novels up for 10 dollars on a free publisher online (as linked in the previous post of mine) and also having a blog of free short stories be a good method for generating audience?

The problem is all about how you can generate your own traffic. I've maintained a pretty niche blog for the past few years, and I can tell you that traffic does not simply respond to how well the content is written. Your content must also interest a large number of people. If you think about people like J.K. Rowling and Stephanie Meyer, what they write about has a lot to do with their popularity. Yes, it's a matter of writing style as well, but I'd say that if they had written about, say, stuff that Kyriakos here is interested in, they probably wouldn't have so many fans.

If you want to rely on your own effort to get traffic, I think you wouldn't really have much freedom to write whatever you want. You'd need to think of a formula that sells itself easily.

I'm not an expert or anything though, so don't take my word as final.

 

[Synobun]

The problem is all about how you can generate your own traffic. I've maintained a pretty niche blog for the past few years, and I can tell you that traffic does not simply respond to how well the content is written. Your content must also interest a large number of people. If you think about people like J.K. Rowling and Stephanie Meyer, what they write about has a lot to do with their popularity. Yes, it's a matter of writing style as well, but I'd say that if they had written about, say, stuff that Kyriakos here is interested in, they probably wouldn't have so many fans.

Yeah, I understand that. Getting an audience will be incredibly difficult, and I likely will have no followers for quite a while. However an advantage I believe I have is that I cannot decide on a genre. I can just as easily switch from inspiration, to sci-fi, to mystery, to fantasy, etc, because it all interests me and I can work with just about any of those genres. The only problem is producing novel content for all those genres, and enough of it to attract a group of followers.

I once considered writing a brain-dead quality novel series about sparkly vampires to go the easy route as Stephanie Meyer did, but I decided eventually that I would never forgive myself for writing such garbage

 

[Flying Pig]

How am I unskilled labor when I hold two degrees and working on a third?!

Are they useful degrees?

 

[GenMarshall]

Experience, Civ. You need experience, and it needs to be relatively recent. Employers don't care about what you've done in the last decade unless the time from then and now is filled with other jobs, even if it's volunteer work. An education is useless if you haven't utilized it in the resume.

Geeze, getting a job is soo effing frustrating! . On one side I'm given the all to familiar you're to overqualified excuse and the other side I "lack" experience.

Did you call any of them?

No, I've been to busy getting a battering ram to even get into entry level positions . Hell, not even McDonnalds would hire me. (An example on how bad it is, I've applied to the local Panera Bread food chain. Never heard from them in months now).

Im at my darkest hour right now that I'm even considering on enlisting into the armed forces (I know I have a bachelors and can go in as an officer via their Officer Canidate School. But with my advanced age, I doubt I'd even make it under the age limit).

On paper, you have not demonstrated you can be counted upon. You have my email, you can always send me your resume and I can tweak it for you.

But I can be counted on. How in the world can I demonstrate that on a piece of paper or on an application (paper or electronic).

 

[Synobun]

Geeze, getting a job is soo effing frustrating! . On one side I'm given the all to familiar you're to overqualified excuse and the other side I "lack" experience.

Try the approach I mentioned earlier in the thread. It's obvious the resume route isn't going to work unless you either get some experience or you miraculously find an employer that doesn't care about that stuff.