How to get a job (or not)

[Valka D'Ur]

^ So what do you do if the person doesn't use social networks? Or maybe a Google search turns up a dozen people with the same name... which one do you choose, considering that the person you're researching may turn out to be none of them?

Just out of curiosity I Googled my own name last night, and it's amazing to see what a fantastic array of careers I have. Too bad none of those people are really me.

 

[Mise]

They will have you address, email and telephone number from your CV to help narrow it down. Once you find someone's online handle then that's basically it for your personal life.

Dammit, I forgot to set my twitter to private again!!

 

[downtown]

Taleo is a horrible piece of software. Any time I've used it I felt like calling up the HR department and telling them they needed to hire me to fix their system.

In any case, I feel I've got enough demand for my skills now that I'm not going to bother wading through awful online application systems anymore.

I hate Taleo too. I've hated almost every applicant tracking software I've used except for BullFrog. CareerBuilder was not terrible, but I didn't like it either. If any of you computer guys wanna get rich, develop an affordable candidate tracking program. Our industry doesn't have a good one yet.

The only way to show on a piece of paper that you can be counted on is through references.

No, there are other ways. If I see a guy has a great GPA, I know he can be counted on to put the effort needed to succeed in school. If a guy gets promoted, or has worked at the same firm for a while, I know he can be counted on to perform well enough to keep his job. If you don't have a record of reliability, you need to get one....and you're right, volunteering is a great way to do that.

I'm with Whomp, the less you say about attendance issues, the better. If you don't have a physical record of showing up on time for something after your last job, nothing you say is going to change your hiring manager's mind.

 

[downtown]

^ So what do you do if the person doesn't use social networks? Or maybe a Google search turns up a dozen people with the same name... which one do you choose, considering that the person you're researching may turn out to be none of them?

Just out of curiosity I Googled my own name last night, and it's amazing to see what a fantastic array of careers I have. Too bad none of those people are really me.

It depends on the job. For most of my recruiting career, I've worked primary with either blue collar jobs, or very entry level work, so not having an online profile wouldn't be a deal breaker. I'm more interested in the results from your driving record and criminal background check.

For somebody interested in a sales position, or for something higher up in my current company, we might stop the recruitment process there. I work for a large, international market research company. If somebody doesn't care enough about their personal brand to set up a basic LinkedIn account (we tend to not care about facebook very much), they may not know enough about how to manage other people's brands.

 

[aelf]

Networking is crucial. You really need to get yourself noticed and work at maintaining a blog, Facebook, Twitter, and other social networks.

Speaking of social media, I hate how every marketing position these days is asking for 'social media expertise'. Speaking for myself, I know how to use social media. I also have video-making skills and basic Photoshop skills. I have also managed to get quite a lot attention for some of the work I've done in various gaming communities (CFC being one of them). I just don't have a really popular blog or much knowledge of search engine optimisation, and I can't imagine that very many people out there do either.*

How can I sell myself as a 'social media expert'?

*I guess this may be part of the present trend of companies being unwilling to train their employees and wanting to hire people with all the skills they want right out of the box.

 

[GenMarshall]

I'm with Whomp, the less you say about attendance issues, the better. If you don't have a physical record of showing up on time for something after your last job, nothing you say is going to change your hiring manager's mind.

So basically I'm screwed?!

I guess I should get used to being permanently unemployed .

 

[downtown]

Speaking of social media, I hate how every marketing position these days is asking for 'social media expertise'. Speaking for myself, I know how to use social media. I also have video-making skills and basic Photoshop skills. I have also managed to get quite a lot attention for some of the work I've done in various gaming communities (CFC being one of them). I just don't have a really popular blog or much knowledge of search engine optimisation, and I can't imagine that very many people out there do either.*

How can I sell myself as a 'social media expert'?

*I guess this may be part of the present trend of companies being unwilling to train their employees and wanting to hire people with all the skills they want right out of the box.

It is quite possible that nobody at the company knows about SEO stuff either, which is why they want to hire somebody who may know.

I think that OT membership could be spun into understanding social media...since ideally, firms would like to create a community around their brand. We have somebody in my company whose only job is to comment on blogs. The idea to get people "involved" with the brand...if they like you on facebook, you can track more data, and make sure they see your adverts...and they can get extra deals or news or whatever. You could suggest starting and running a company blog that deals with industry users, and then comments on similar blogs, etc...

So basically I'm screwed?!

I guess I should get used to being permanently unemployed .

You're only going to be screwed if you just sit at home all day doing nothing. If you start volunteering somewhere, or join a club...or do anything that sticks to a particular schedule, you can break your cycle. Your word of "I've changed!" will likely not be enough...unless you're applying for REALLY basic jobs.

 

[GenMarshall]

Well I really cannot volunteer due to the fact that they don't pay. I'm mainly for the money. Yes I know I live at home with my folks, but I want OUT and having my own place. Being unemployed and still living with one's parents is not viewed attractive to other women.

Perhaps I could just not even make mention of my attendance issues and just stick to my story that I was laid off for downsizing.

 

[downtown]

Well I really cannot volunteer due to the fact that they don't pay. I'm mainly for the money. Yes I know I live at home with my folks, but I want OUT and having my own place. Being unemployed and still living with one's parents is not viewed attractive to other women.

Perhaps I could just not even make mention of my attendance issues and just stick to my story that I was laid off for downsizing.

Being unemployed also doesn't pay. If you're ON unemployment benefits, you can still get those and volunteer. Think of volunteering as an investment towards your goal of moving out of your folks....like an internship.

You can tell that story, but if your interviewer calls up your last boss and asks about you, you'll get caught.

 

[warpus]

We formally look for a police record and sometimes do a credit check. I often do Google searches.

Why a credit check?

 

[GenMarshall]

Being unemployed also doesn't pay. If you're ON unemployment benefits, you can still get those and volunteer. Think of volunteering as an investment towards your goal of moving out of your folks....like an internship.

No matter how its spinned, volunteers don't get paid. If I volunteer, The id have to get paid to cover at least the cost of gas to go from home to the volunteer place. Not to mention the hassle of applying and interviewing for a volunteer job. Likely due to my attendance history, THEY would not consider me.

You can tell that story, but if your interviewer calls up your last boss and asks about you, you'll get caught.

Strikes me as unfair that employers would not be willing to give workers who have had attendance issue in the past and have learned from their mistake. Sounds to me very discriminatory. Personally, they should give them a chance. What's the point of the prohibitionary period?

If there going to do that, then why bother even listing my previous employer?

 

[warpus]

No matter how its spinned, volunteers don't get paid. If I volunteer, The id have to get paid to cover at least the cost of gas to go from home to the volunteer place. Not to mention the hassle of applying and interviewing for a volunteer job. Likely due to my attendance history, THEY would not consider me.

Volunteering looks GREAT on a resume. It shows initiative and that you are willing to work. It will help in your search for a job, if you actually want one..

 

[GenMarshall]

Volunteering looks GREAT on a resume. It shows initiative and that you are willing to work. It will help in your search for a job, if you actually want one..

As with a normal job, what if the volunteer organization rejects me because I was late with my previous employer dispite that I've rectified and made changes? Ho can the volunteer organization vouch for me that I am dependable and have rectified my previous issues? I'm not even sure if being a participant in a club in school would be sufficient enough.

I know I still live with my folks, but I don't want to be a burden and have them foot over money to pay for gas (I'm very reluctant to even tap into my savings account because I am saving up somi can live on my own when I have to foot the bill for a security deposit and other advanced rent payments and turning on utilities). I mainly don't like volunteering due to the fact that they don't pay.

I'm perhaps just better off enlisting in the armed forces.

 

[Silurian]

As with a normal job, what if the volunteer organization rejects me because I was late with my previous employer dispite that I've rectified and made changes? Ho can the volunteer organization vouch for me that I am dependable and have rectified my previous issues? I'm not even sure if being a participant in a club in school would be sufficient enough.

I know I still live with my folks, but I don't want to be a burden and have them foot over money to pay for gas (I'm very reluctant to even tap into my savings account because I am saving up somi can live on my own when I have to foot the bill for a security deposit and other advanced rent payments and turning on utilities). I mainly don't like volunteering due to the fact that they don't pay.

I'm perhaps just better off enlisting in the armed forces.

If they are short of volunteers they may accept your previous attendance issues.

You may be able to volunteer at a place near to where your parents work, friend, neighbour work so that you do not have to pay to get there. There may be someone else at the place you volunteer that could give you a lift. If you live in a town you can walk or use a bicycle.

If you have to be interviewed for the volunteer position then treat it as training in interview techniques. Is it not better to make a mistake there than at an interview for a paid job.

As other people have noted treat volunteering as an investment.

And Take up Downtowns offer if you have not already done so. You have nothing to lose and can ignore his suggestions if you do not like them.

 

[Flying Pig]

No matter how its spinned, volunteers don't get paid. If I volunteer, The id have to get paid to cover at least the cost of gas to go from home to the volunteer place. Not to mention the hassle of applying and interviewing for a volunteer job. Likely due to my attendance history, THEY would not consider me.

Volunteering and doing well is probably your best chance of convincing people that you're over your attendance issues. Some charities will take almost anyone, and so you can use it as practise and evidence that you can work in a reasonably normal environment.

 

[Synobun]

Yeah CivG, you live in a city. There is probably at least five different volunteer potentials around the block from where you live. It doesn't pay, but if you are so adamant about going the resume approach, it is a good way to fill it up and to convince an employer you're responsible and reliable.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

CivG, I mean well, but I'm going to be blunt. For 3 pages I've read you making excuses for not following the great advice you're getting. And I believe a potential employer would pick up on that attitude. You have been complaining how it isn't fair and woe is you. Example:

Strikes me as unfair that employers would not be willing to give workers who have had attendance issue in the past and have learned from their mistake. Sounds to me very discriminatory. Personally, they should give them a chance. What's the point of the prohibitionary period?

Discriminatory? Place yourself in the shoes of that employer who has other applicants to chose from. They're not there to give you breaks. If you display the same kind of attitude there, you've displayed here, I wouldn't hire you. Not because you were late, but because you're not convincing me you learned from your mistake (as an employer. As Ziggy, I believe you).

You must take responsibility in that you've only got yourself to blame for the situation you're in. If you display that kind of attitude and if you take this good advice:

Ok, those are some actual skills. Thats why those temp agencies would be even more useful, since you could be a strong candidate for a temporary office clerk opening. After you get a few months of experience in a general office setting, instead of a casino, you could work your way into a larger company as a basic clerk, and they could help pay for accounting (or other) training.

Check Craigslist as well.

then instead of trying to convince, you can show them you've learned from your mistakes. Then they are not going to call the boss you were with when you made that mistake, they are going to call the boss you have most recently worked for, even if this was voluntary work.

And do so with a positive can-do (Christ, did I say "can-do"? Someone please shoot me now.) attitude, you really do have a chance. You do have skills. There are opportunities. You've got to be confident going into interviews (hard thing to do, I know. Maybe try some role playing interviews even though they're awkward. But job interviews are awkward as well.)

 

[squall78]

CG: Your family is going to be fine with footing the gas to get yourself to volunteer. If not take the bus. If it's close enough walk/run. That's no money out of your pocket. You gotta do something dude.

If you're planning on going military, TALK TO A RECRUITER NOW! It took me a year to get in. You don't ship out to basic as soon as you enlist anymore. There are going to be hang ups with medical records, and jobs aren't as scarce anymore. Based on your posts it seems like basic might do you some good in breaking you down and bringing you back up.

BTW: I thought your new employer can only by law ask how long you've worked at your last jobs? They would call the HR department and only be allowed to ask if they did work there, and how long.

 

[GenMarshall]

CivG, I mean well, but I'm going to be blunt. For 3 pages I've read you making excuses for not following the great advice you're getting...

Well you don't know how frustrated I am being unemployed for almost two years now.

 

[downtown]

BTW: I thought your new employer can only by law ask how long you've worked at your last jobs? They would call the HR department and only be allowed to ask if they did work there, and how long.

We can ask about all sorts of things, but many HR professionals elect to only confirm dates of employment, title, wage, and why they left. If you ask questions about performance, you have to tell the candidate if you chose to not move forward because of their references...and that can get messy. I haven't heard many other HR guys sing the praises of verbal reference checks, even though most people do it.