How to get a job (or not)

[GenMarshall]

Try the approach I mentioned earlier in the thread. It's obvious the resume route isn't going to work unless you either get some experience or you miraculously find an employer that doesn't care about that stuff.

Or enlist into the armed forces. Which is what I am about to do if I don't get a job by the time my unemployment runs out.

 

[Synobun]

Or enlist into the armed forces. Which is what I am about to do if I don't get a job by the time my unemployment runs out.

I suppose enlisting in the army is a good last resort, but do please try going to very obscure placements and looking for work there without a resume, or primarily via talking to the boss. I doubt you'd prefer to get shot at in a pointless war in the desert over doing some menial tasks to at least get some money and at least get some experience.

 

[Flying Pig]

But I can be counted on. How in the world can I demonstrate that on a piece of paper or on an application (paper or electronic).

You have to give evidence of a time hwen you've been dependable. So 'my manager called me up late at night the other week explaining that we'd been hit with a project for tomorrow, and I went into the office and helped him get it done': rather than just saying 'I'm dependable! Honest!'

Or enlist into the armed forces. Which is what I am about to do if I don't get a job by the time my unemployment runs out.
I suppose enlisting in the army is a good last resort, but do please try going to very obscure placements and looking for work there without a resume, or primarily via talking to the boss. I doubt you'd prefer to get shot at in a pointless war in the desert over doing some menial tasks to at least get some money and at least get some experience.

Solution - join the Navy!

 

[GenMarshall]

You have to give evidence of a time hwen you've been dependable. So 'my manager called me up late at night the other week explaining that we'd been hit with a project for tomorrow, and I went into the office and helped him get it done': rather than just saying 'I'm dependable! Honest!'

Something like that strikes me as something to say during an interview.

 

[Mise]

This here book was ABSOLUTELY AMAZING! Helped me loads. I definitely recommend it! http://www.amazon.co.uk/Great-Answers-Tough-Interview-Questions/dp/0749435526

 

[downtown]

How am I unskilled labor when I hold two degrees and working on a third?!

You only have one degree...an AA doesn't count. What skills do you have?

Not sure what kinds of jobs you are applying to, but some employers will not look at a resume if it doesn't have a cover letter (this comes down to the individual recruiter usually; never have understood this myself since cover letters are not applicable for many jobs)

Also, it's apparently becoming more common for employers to ignore resumes of anyone who has been out of work. A functional resume (instead of a chronological one) might help, but a recruiter who is swamped with resumes (which many are) will likely ignore a resume without the chronology - if you do a functional resume, make sure you show how much time you worked at each job so they still have a sense of your experience, even if not the exact dates

Both of these are true. I don't usually read cover letters, but I remember who has them...it shows they are actually interested in the job, rather than the guys who apply to 50 gigs at once. I always call them back first. Some of my recruiter friends ONLY call these people. A cover letter can only help you.

The problem is all about how you can generate your own traffic. I've maintained a pretty niche blog for the past few years, and I can tell you that traffic does not simply respond to how well the content is written. Your content must also interest a large number of people. If you think about people like J.K. Rowling and Stephanie Meyer, what they write about has a lot to do with their popularity. Yes, it's a matter of writing style as well, but I'd say that if they had written about, say, stuff that Kyriakos here is interested in, they probably wouldn't have so many fans.

Yeah, it's all market driven. How "good" your work is is typically way less important than what the projected market for the work would be. Writing letters to publishers requires you to get pretty good at sales.

No, I've been to busy getting a battering ram to even get into entry level positions . Hell, not even McDonnalds would hire me. (An example on how bad it is, I've applied to the local Panera Bread food chain. Never heard from them in months now).

That is EXACTLY why you need to call those agencies! They exist to help people like you entry level jobs. Not taking help when it is offered is exactly what I mean by not demonstrating you can be reliable.

 

[GenMarshall]

You only have one degree...an AA doesn't count. What skills do you have?

MS Office Suite (Excel/Word)
Point of Sale processing (Handled the billing for a time at my former employee's livery department processing credit cards)
Database entry (Pit Clerk, inputting patron's win/losses)
Check transactions (As a pit clerk, processed markers)
Stocking and inventory
Mail processing

I just have the basics of a Clerk with some finances thrown in (Casino Pit Clerk).

and yes, I admit that my degree is as worthless as poop (Liberal Arts) . If I knew know what I knew then, I'd transfer to an Batchellors program in accounting, even if I had to say an extra year.

Still dont know why associates don't count, the should count for something .

 

[downtown]

MS Office Suite (Excel/Word)
Point of Sale processing (Handled the billing for a time at my former employee's livery department processing credit cards)
Database entry (Pit Clerk, inputting patron's win/losses)
Check transactions (As a pit clerk, processed markers)
Stocking and inventory
Mail processing

I just have the basics of a Clerk with some finances thrown in (Casino Pit Clerk).

and yes, I admit that my degree is as worthless as poop (Liberal Arts) . If I knew know what I knew then, I'd transfer to an Batchellors program in accounting, even if I had to say an extra year.

Still dont know why associates don't count, the should count for something .

Ok, those are some actual skills. Thats why those temp agencies would be even more useful, since you could be a strong candidate for a temporary office clerk opening. After you get a few months of experience in a general office setting, instead of a casino, you could work your way into a larger company as a basic clerk, and they could help pay for accounting (or other) training.

Check Craigslist as well.

 

[Flying Pig]

and yes, I admit that my degree is as worthless as poop (Liberal Arts) . If I knew know what I knew then, I'd transfer to an Batchellors program in accounting, even if I had to say an extra year..

Liberal Arts (as you Americans call Humanities) degrees normally, along with the associated qualities, translate into management and leadership positions. It's the ability to think and adapt that they show, rather than actual skills.

 

[Alassius]

Since many of you are or will be looking for work, I thought a thread of Q&A, advice or stories might be fun and helpful. Anyone can ask and anyone can answer. I am only the thread starter.

Asking good questions during an interview is a very strong strategy and few do it well. Here are 20 to consider asking for your next at your job interview. They are not original with me, though I have used some of them and would be impressed if I were asked any of them. Choose four or five that seem the most appropriate for the position or company in question.

Some more questions one can ask:

Is this position new? If yes, ask if the position is part of a growth plan/strategy; ask them to explain further; pretend you understand; then ask how you can contribute to said plan. If no, ask casually why the last guy left.

Ask as many questions as you can on the operational side of the business, including the parts that do not directly relate to your role. This will be different across industries. For a programming job, for example, try these:

How they handle customer requests;
How teams communicate with each other;
What they feel can/should be improved;
Software development life cycle;
How they do high level documentation;
Their architecture;
Infrastructure (how robust, how many people in the team).

Always try to follow up with questions or ask for elaboration. If something they do is obviously wrong, ask if they have tried to improve.

Do people at work hang out often? Friday lunch and pubs, etc.

What's the average age?

And ask to see the office!

These questions serve a few purposes: to show that you think; that you want to learn and contribute; that you are interested in the company; and to give you some idea about how it'd be like to work there.

 

[GenMarshall]

How do I go about explaining my "attendance problems" to my future employer (eather paid or voluntere) and explain to him or her that I've learned from that mistake and that it won't happen again in the future with them.

 

[Whomp]

Outside of the obvious of networking, I would suggest job applicants become intimately aware of what Taleo's software is looking for. Though, Taleo's software is a p.i.t.a, there's a ton of companies that use it. Taleo helps companies sort resume's easier through the software and the reader.

As this article says, and my girlfriend can confirm (executive in the very fast growing RPO industry) the "spray and pray" approach to sending resume's does not work. Your resume' should adapt to every job you apply for. Using "sales" for a job that has nothing to do with "sales" will be tossed.

Article about Taleo and general good advice for job hunters.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/04/02/news/economy/kowitt_resume.fortune/index.htm

There's a lot more I could add like preparing for "behavioral interview questions" but a good amount has already been offered.

Poor attendance will always be problematic so avoid the discussion at all cost.

 

[Zelig]

Outside of the obvious of networking, I would suggest job applicants become intimately aware of what Taleo's software is looking for. Though, Taleo's software is a p.i.t.a, there's a ton of companies that use it. Taleo helps companies sort resume's easier through the software and the reader.

Taleo is a horrible piece of software. Any time I've used it I felt like calling up the HR department and telling them they needed to hire me to fix their system.

In any case, I feel I've got enough demand for my skills now that I'm not going to bother wading through awful online application systems anymore.

 

[Archbob]

Liberal Arts (as you Americans call Humanities) degrees normally, along with the associated qualities, translate into management and leadership positions. It's the ability to think and adapt that they show, rather than actual skills.

Thats only a small % of liberal arts majors. It doesn't help as much as actual skills in getting in the door.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

I think there's nothing wrong with fan fiction (and I say this as as someone who doesn't like fan fiction, apart from the masterful Doom: The Repercussions of Evil). Generally there is no legal (or moral) issue with fan fiction, although I've also heard that fan fiction writers who go on to become published authors would typically remove the works that they have put up themselves, probably just to stay on the safe side.

There are loads of fanfic writers who have gone on to become professionals. In the Star Trek sub-genre, the first name that comes to mind is Diane Duane. She got her start in the early Star Trek fanzines, and is today one of the most well-respected Star Trek authors (as well as publishing books in her own original universes). And take a look at the fantasy section of the average bookstore; people like Mercedes Lackey and Diana Paxson started out writing fanfic for Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover series. Now they are prolific authors in their own universes. And even though the examples I've given are all women, there are men who have also made the leap from fanfic to published author. It's a shame the Star Trek anthology series Strange New Worlds isn't published anymore; that series gave several authors a start when they were published in those books.

The problem is all about how you can generate your own traffic. I've maintained a pretty niche blog for the past few years, and I can tell you that traffic does not simply respond to how well the content is written. Your content must also interest a large number of people. If you think about people like J.K. Rowling and Stephanie Meyer, what they write about has a lot to do with their popularity. Yes, it's a matter of writing style as well, but I'd say that if they had written about, say, stuff that Kyriakos here is interested in, they probably wouldn't have so many fans.

If you want to rely on your own effort to get traffic, I think you wouldn't really have much freedom to write whatever you want. You'd need to think of a formula that sells itself easily.

I'm not an expert or anything though, so don't take my word as final.

Networking is crucial. You really need to get yourself noticed and work at maintaining a blog, Facebook, Twitter, and other social networks.

But the main thing is sheer, dogged perseverance. I was part of an editing team that helped a friend of mine get his first novel published. My friend literally did legwork to find an agent that would represent him, and even that took a long time. Before this happened, the book (two, actually; there was another novel he wrote that has so far not found a publisher - a damn shame, since that one is the better one, in my opinion) went through multiple revisions. There's nothing quite like an email conference at 3 a.m. because I'm on Mountain Time in Canada and he's in London, England...

Geeze, getting a job is soo effing frustrating! . On one side I'm given the all to familiar you're to overqualified excuse and the other side I "lack" experience.

But I can be counted on. How in the world can I demonstrate that on a piece of paper or on an application (paper or electronic).

Been there. My own solution was to create my own job, which I worked at for many years.

The only way to show on a piece of paper that you can be counted on is through references.

Do you do any volunteer work? If not, you should start. Experience gained through volunteering is still experience, and can sometimes lead to paid employment.

 

[Whomp]

Taleo is a horrible piece of software. Any time I've used it I felt like calling up the HR department and telling them they needed to hire me to fix their system.

In any case, I feel I've got enough demand for my skills now that I'm not going to bother wading through awful online application systems anymore.

Indeed but the reality is they are biggest in their space and 3rd largest software as a service company behind only concur and salesforce.com. As a user of those two, as well, I have to admit SaaS has long way to go as an industry.

 

[warpus]

Been there.

Me too. I had a very hard time finding a job right after University. I ended up going on welfare for a while, or whatever it was.. unemployment insurance? I'm not sure. They made me go to a meeting every 2 weeks and I REALLY didn't want to be there, so I started looking for a job even harder.

And nothing seemed to work.. nobody was responding to any of my applications. In hindsight I should have probably made more follow-up calls and there were probably other issues with my approach..

I ended up getting that first job via networking.. Sort of. My roommate knew that I was looking for a job and he forwarded me a random email he received - he didn't understand where it came from.. It was an offer for a job. He was still an undergrad then - he didn't apply to any jobs or have his resume up on any job sites. It baffled him, but he couldn't take the job because he was still in school, so he passed it on to me.

So I call the guy and he's like "Can you do this, and that, and stuff?" And I said yes.. and I had a job! Not even a minute on the phone and I was hired.. somehow. Now that I think back on that, I was really really lucky. Got to work from home, in full control of a web server, good pay.. great experience. I lucked out so I guess I should shut up about giving advice in this thread.

 

[Camikaze]

A question inspired by this comic in this thread, how much background check type stuff do companies actually normally do?

 

[Birdjaguar]

We formally look for a police record and sometimes do a credit check. I often do Google searches.

 

[downtown]

A question inspired by this comic in this thread, how much background check type stuff do companies actually normally do?

It depends on the job. I worked for my state's AG in college, and had to get a security clearance, so they checked me out pretty good (credit, criminal, driving record, FB, references, google search, grades, etc).

I always run a driving record and a 7 year criminal background check on somebody I'm looking to hire. I'll also look them up on LinkedIn as a way of doublechecking their resume.