I hate Anime and Japanese cartoon culture in general

[Oruc]

I used to watch some anime, I really liked Outlaw Star thought it was great for example. Now I dont keep up with new releases, just limit my interest to Japanese porn.

 

[aelf]

They're probably not "especially" susceptible to it actually. It just becomes so very much more apparent when people who usually jump at others for some racist remark towards Africans or Muslims suddenly turn around and come with racist remarks themselves.

One of the central criticisms of prejudice is that it's irrational and almost instinctive, so I don't think it's particularly surprising that left-wingers are sometimes also susceptible to having prejudices. It doesn't prove that they have bad faith, just that they aren't perfect.

You should definitely take them up on it and they should see the light fairly readily. Then again, some people have fairly simplistic views on things, even if those views are mostly in the 'right' direction, and they might have a hard time going beyond those. Personally, I think most left-wingers who haven't would benefit from learning about postcolonial theory and left-wing critiques of postcolonial theory.

 

[bestrfcplayer]

I watched DBZ, and Pokemon when I was a kid, but that all changed when Avatar: The Last Airbender came on. But, that's about it. Besides Avatar, I generally hate Anime's (Pokemon got quite old with it's dialogue).

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Now this I like


Link to video.

 

[NetGear]

Anime is no different from any other form of media. Most of it is crap because most people are crap and lot of them caters to their stupidity. I woulldnt dismiss the genre as a whole though.

 

[GoodGame]

Is this thread heading towards Red Diamond status?

To answer Cheetah: I don't see much hate here, other than perhaps over-generalization of a category. I'd probably be more bothered if I thought it was strictly a meme to regurgitate a hate expressed by others. I figure other people are drawing their own opinions from their own experiences, is all. Though I'm not more than a left-leaning centrist, to be honest.

Disliking a form of art is one thing. Over-genralizing about an entire people based on the art that some of the population likes is another thing. But I wouldn't presume it to be racism.

 

[Ajidica]

To answer the OP, some Anime is quite good. The Miyazaki films and Ghost in the Shell spring to mind. Alot of it is absolute trash, and most of it makes about as much sense as tofu eating lion.

I would reccomend you watch the good anime, such as Ghost in the Shell: SAC (the only one I've seen), Princess Mononoke, and Spirited Away.

 

[Cheetah]

The pop culture I see creeps me out. I don't see how that's rasist - I specifically avoid saying "I hate Japan/Japanese" or that kind of thing, because I don't, I'm just creeped out by a lot of their exports, and the obsession it becomes for some Americans.

Seriously, how is it rasist?

It's not. But that isn't quite what I'm getting at either.

While you say you're quite specific on what it is you don't like, it seems that many aren't. And it seems to be acceptable for people to make less-than-positive remarks or fuel such stereotypes about Japanese people or their culture.

And I really wonder why that is. Is it just a form of "They're rich, so it's okay" as Eat_up_Martha said, or is there something else?

Japanese culture is one of the few non-Western cultures that haven't been completely ravaged by the West, and they're actually able to export their cultural products to the West. I wonder if that doesn't have something to do with it: That it is in fact so unusual to Westerners that it is seen as somehow inferior or crazy, because it doesn't look enough like a Western product? But I really don't know.

One of the central criticisms of prejudice is that it's irrational and almost instinctive, so I don't think it's particularly surprising that left-wingers are sometimes also susceptible to having prejudices. It doesn't prove that they have bad faith, just that they aren't perfect.

You should definitely take them up on it and they should see the light fairly readily. Then again, some people have fairly simplistic views on things, even if those views are mostly in the 'right' direction, and they might have a hard time going beyond those. Personally, I think most left-wingers who haven't would benefit from learning about postcolonial theory and left-wing critiques of postcolonial theory.

Oh, I don't think they're actually "evil" (in lack of a better term) or actually hate Japan/Japanese people.

But what I don't get is how easy it is to somehow criticize people who make disparaging remarks about more "traditionally" downtrodden groups, and then suddenly throw out some racist or half-racist slur against Japanese people.

To answer Cheetah: I don't see much hate here, other than perhaps over-generalization of a category. I'd probably be more bothered if I thought it was strictly a meme to regurgitate a hate expressed by others. I figure other people are drawing their own opinions from their own experiences, is all. Though I'm not more than a left-leaning centrist, to be honest.

Disliking a form of art is one thing. Over-genralizing about an entire people based on the art that some of the population likes is another thing. But I wouldn't presume it to be racism.

No, there isn't much overt racism in this thread. But there was enough generalizations that I was reminded of this topic.

And it's not just all personal experience. Unless looking at something for a few seconds, seeing a style of drawing you don't like, go with the rest of the flow and declare all Japanese cartoons as childish and stupid, and with a few more steps conclude that Japanese people are crazy while never having met a Japanese person or set foot in Japan.

It's just that while it is true that you can find a lot of strange stuff in Japan, it is also equally true that you can find a lot of strange stuff in the rest of the world.

And I know about a hundred or so Japanese people. They're not creepy, not immature, not sex-fixated weirdos. They don't run around trying to take picture of girl's panties, they don't have lots of strange fetishes, they're not socially awkward or uninformed about the rest of the world. The girls aren't especially submissive or stupid or pushovers. From my experience they're as smart and upstanding and independent as any girl in the West. And not all Japanese people like anime, and I can guarantee you that you can't find a person in Japan who likes all the different types of anime. Japanese people aren't some strange, alien race who walks, talks and thinks in completely alien ways. They're just as normal as the whole rest of humanity!

And yet it's not hard to come over more or less racist remarks from lots of people, who, if I'd exchanged "Japanese" with "black" or "Muslim" or "gay" or lots of other things, would have balked at hearing it! I've heard it from Americans and Europeans and Australians while living in Japan, I've heard it in Norway, I've heard it in the US while I lived there and I can find it any any kind of topic on CFC that involves Japan in some way.

So what the hell is it?

PS: Oh, and also: It's pretty damn annoying to hear people equate "Anime" with "All Japanese Pop-culture" or even "All Japanese culture". Unless the Japanese tea-seremony and kaiga (Japanese painting) is somehow creepy and disturbing to people...

 

[Thoughtful Thug]

I am a big fan of Japanese history. Mainly during the time before the Meji Restoration.

Not a big fan of most of their cartoons (anime). But there are some good ones (Ghost In The Shell).

More funny are the people who hyperoverreact to it. I watch some anime, that's about the extent of my involvement with "Japanese cartoon culture."

Toshiro Mifune is my favorite actor of all time.

Yeah, I'm sure the women that have massive eyes, disproportionately sized breasts, inhuman shapes (basically objects of desire, rather than actual people) project a strong, feminist vibe.

They're pretty hawt. I guess you just can't understand that, bro. lol

The pop culture I see creeps me out.

Kurious to what they are that make you uncomfortable.

 

[aelf]

So what the hell is it?

Like I said, just simple prejudice. There isn't any grand explanation for it. The fact that Japan is not considered part of the developing world (and the Japanese are not typically considered subalterns) might serve to explain why it doesn't win the sympathy that might make people look beyond simple prejudices, but that's about it.

The pop culture I see creeps me out. I don't see how that's rasist - I specifically avoid saying "I hate Japan/Japanese" or that kind of thing, because I don't, I'm just creeped out by a lot of their exports, and the obsession it becomes for some Americans.

Seriously, how is it rasist?

You can certainly say that of American/British cultural exports too, if you didn't know better (like lots of people in the developing world).

It's not that you're committing some grave moral error per se. It's just that your perception betrays some ignorance of the subject matter.

 

[Miles Teg]

I've seen anime and anime inspired works that were either genuinely good (Avatar, most of Hayao Miyazaki's stuff) that were great. I've sen (briefly) pieces of anime that were as bad as an old 1960s Hanna-Barbera saturday morning cartoon. Sturgeon's Law says that 90% of anime is going to be crap, just like everything else.

And of course, it's not hard to see why anime has a perception problem in the west. Especially after you take a wrong turn navigating the internet and wind up on a hentai site *shudder*

 

[RedRalph]

I have a question:

Why do so many people in the West, even (especially?) lots of "left-leaning", anti-racist, progressive people think it is totally okay with statements that are more or less racist towards Japan and Japanese people?

This goes for all the usual suspects if you like to answer. Seeing as this is basically bash-anime-and-Japanese-culture-thread, it should be right on topic.

And I'm not just thinking of this thread as an example, but all the small remarks that inevitably come up constantly whenever something about Japan is discussed.

Even TF, who usually always come to the defense of the downtrodden and will make away with any unfair stereotype, had no problem coming with racist comments about Japanese people. (I know you apologized TF, but as an example I feel that is a very clear one.)

So what's the deal? Is it cool to be (half-) racists as long as it directed at people from a developed country who actually have a distinct culture from you? As long as they're not black or brown or Muslim it's all okay?

I'm seriously wondering how you think about this, and how you consider it yourselves?

you're way off there, feller. I love some Japanese artwork, like Hokusai, Hiroshige and especially some of the stuff depicting the war with Russia. I think you are seeing things that aren't there (largely).

 

[GoodGame]

And of course, it's not hard to see why anime has a perception problem in the west. Especially after you take a wrong turn navigating the internet and wind up on a hentai site *shudder*

Beyond that there's also a lot of "loli" cartoons that aren't porn, but anime which are pretty lavicious/risque---and they kind of rub me the wrong way. But I don't presume that to influence my view of Japan in general.

 

[jtb1127]

I'm with you OP. I never quite understood it.

 

[NickyJ]

Carmen, thank you for summarizing why I think Japan is kind of crazy. I wonder if nukes have more effects than we think? Oh well, that's going off topic.

 

[Cheetah]

you're way off there, feller. I love some Japanese artwork, like Hokusai, Hiroshige and especially some of the stuff depicting the war with Russia. I think you are seeing things that aren't there (largely).

Just to be clear: I'm not necessarily criticizing you or the OP in particular, it was just that the tone of some of the posts in this thread reminded me of how I feel it seems that people are okay with bashing Japanese people and culture in ways that wouldn't be acceptable against say, blacks, Muslims or gays.

I get that you have a somewhat broader view on Japanese culture, but most of my friends in Norway for instance, really don't give a crap about learning anything about Japan, but are more than happy to share any crazy story they hear coming from Japan.

 

[GoodGame]

So what the hell is it?

PS: Oh, and also: It's pretty damn annoying to hear people equate "Anime" with "All Japanese Pop-culture" or even "All Japanese culture". Unless the Japanese tea-seremony and kaiga (Japanese painting) is somehow creepy and disturbing to people...

Well I'd subtract out racism and that'd leave probably personal/family anger (e.g. relatives fought in WW2) or cultural bigotry (I like Miles comment that Japan was pretty successful in not being completely assimilated into Western culture, and by not being European-strictly, it kind of seems alien to people presuming that Western culture is the absolute norm).

 

[RedRalph]

Just to be clear: I'm not necessarily criticizing you or the OP in particular, it was just that the tone of some of the posts in this thread reminded me of how I feel it seems that people are okay with bashing Japanese people and culture in ways that wouldn't be acceptable against say, blacks, Muslims or gays.

I get that you have a somewhat broader view on Japanese culture, but most of my friends in Norway for instance, really don't give a crap about learning anything about Japan, but are more than happy to share any crazy story they hear coming from Japan.

It's the only completely non-western place we get to see much of the culture of, and frankly, the culture is bizarre in the extreme. It's something we are not familliar with but are exposed to all the time.

 

[GoodGame]

So what the hell is it?

PS: Oh, and also: It's pretty damn annoying to hear people equate "Anime" with "All Japanese Pop-culture" or even "All Japanese culture". Unless the Japanese tea-seremony and kaiga (Japanese painting) is somehow creepy and disturbing to people...

Well I'd subtract out racism and that'd leave probably personal/family anger (e.g. relatives fought in WW2, lost jobs to Japanese steel dumping or Honda/Toyota) or cultural bigotry (I liked someone's Miles comment that Japan was pretty successful in not being completely assimilated into Western culture, and by not being European-strictly, it kind of seems alien to people presuming that Western culture is the absolute norm).

 

[FriendlyFire]

The japanese produce so much of it and most of it is pretty substandard. But every year theres maybe one or two which is amazing.
(as a kid though have to say that robotech and tranformers were really cool)