Thanks. 
It was a bit slower then I'd like it to be, but I guess having a bunch of Elite troops makes up for it. 
It was a bit slower then I'd like it to be, but I guess having a bunch of Elite troops makes up for it. 
MB3 - Old Testament Bunfight
- Thread starter mad-bax
- Start date
Northern Pike
Deity
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Great round, SO. 
You were quite right to surrender the saltpetre. Our error there was the subtle one of keeping a second saltpetre source hooked up when we didn't intend to trade it.
You were quite right to surrender the saltpetre. Our error there was the subtle one of keeping a second saltpetre source hooked up when we didn't intend to trade it.
Northern Pike
Deity
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The above link doesn't seem to work. The save is in the uploads folder, but as MB3_600AD.zip, with an underlined space rather than a hyphen.
Thanks, I'll fix it.
edit: fixed!
edit: fixed!
My turn? Got it!
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Nice going Space 
Ted
Ted
I managed to give a quick look at the save yest night.
I should be able to give another small hit to the Aztecs. Then?
It looks like the Celts could be the next target, if we want to stick to the current policy.
Persia or Greece also come to mind, if we want to simplify our borders somewhat.
Or a dogpile on Babylon, of course.
Right now, I'd say the Celts.
I should be able to give another small hit to the Aztecs. Then?
It looks like the Celts could be the next target, if we want to stick to the current policy.
Persia or Greece also come to mind, if we want to simplify our borders somewhat.
Or a dogpile on Babylon, of course.
Right now, I'd say the Celts.
Yes, the idea was to get Sun Tzu's, and then let our attention roam elsewhere...
The Celts would mean transporting our troops, but they do have some juicy assets and we want revenge for the city that flipped, don't we..
The Celts would mean transporting our troops, but they do have some juicy assets and we want revenge for the city that flipped, don't we..
Yessssssssssss... Sssssssun Tzu... we had noticed that cute little building, hadn't we... :vampire:
... and we want revenge for the city that flipped, don't we..
That's exactly what I was thinking about: retake pe-ople (plus all the other Celt towns, just as a pre-emptive measure against other flips, you know).
Northern Pike
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Bear the Celtic-Babylonian MPP in mind, though.
Yes.
We can get around their MPP with another one with Babylon; if that's not possible, we can surely look for another target.
I am not sure I'll start another war during my turns, anyway.
We can get around their MPP with another one with Babylon; if that's not possible, we can surely look for another target.
I am not sure I'll start another war during my turns, anyway.
Played three turns so far, then stopped for a round of blabla.
Here what happened
Pre-turn
Greece have some cash and two workers. I don't resist trading them wines + furs for 70 gp, 1 gpt, WM and two workers.
Our army: we have 3 Explorers, 12 Warriors and 1 Archer which I am very tempted to disband. Disbanded.
Hurry Library in Verulamium, Cattaraugus, Texcoco and Hispalis, Temple in Denizli.
IT - Endless troop movements through our lands. I don't think Greece will last very long...
Turn 1 - 610 AD
Adrianople and Iznik: Sipahi -> Settler
Hispalis: Library -> Temple
Konya: Cathedral -> Sipahi
Adana: Musket -> Musket
Denizli: Temple -> Marketplace
Conquered Tlaxcala, no losses.
IT - A lone Sipahi is brutally murdered by two Aztec Longbows outside Teotihuacan.
Greece and Babylon sign a peace treaty.
Renew peace with Rome (poor old Julius )
Turn 2 - 620 AD
Constantinople: Settler -> Sipahi
Conquered Allegheny - one loss, one promotion to Elite.
Attacked Tenochtitlan. Killed four Pikes, lost one Sipahi + two redlined (to a regular Pikemen...). Lost another Sipahi.
We discover Democracy, which we can trade to Celts and Babs.
I take a small risk and play one more turn to see if I can end the war with Zuma.
IT - Zulu and Greece sign peace
Do not renew RoP with Celts.
Turn 3 - 630 AD
Adrianople: Settler -> Sipahi
Iznik: Settler -> Sipahi
Attack Tenochtitlan. Killed one defender and two Longbows.
Three more Sipahi redlined (call it bad luck). And, before you ask, yes, I did bombard the stupid Aztecs with what Cannons I had -all failed, of course...
The city did not fall, having a single 2-hp Pikeman left.
Conquer Oil Springs with one more loss -definitely not my turn, this one. Should have stayed at home sipping a cup of tea...
But, in a masterful display of compensation, destiny gives us a Great Leader!
So I pause here
Democracy is still tradeable.
The Celts are really screaming to be wiped out of the map, and this trading round is right now our best chance to draw Babylon against them and break their MPP.
Democracy would actually give us gold + MPP with Babylon (checked). That would do the trick but would force us into a war with Greece -Bab and Greece are at peace, but Celts units in Greek territory aren't...
I couldn't clearly check it, but we could declare on Brennus and try to sign a MA with Hammurabi. This is riskier though.
In addition, the Zulus would gladly join this war should we need their help.
On the other hand, attacking the Celts now -with several of their units and most of our Sipahi in the Aztec area- could be a bit rushed -we have 34 Sipahi right now, some of which are watching the borders with Babylon and Persia.
Trading Democracy with a peaceful mind would bring us about 150 - 200 gp and 50-60 gpt (I haven't checked all the civs, but I doubt they could contribute significantly) in addition to the last MA techs.
I have kept both options open.
Then, the Leader. I would personally use it to move our Palace.Where?
The newly-conquered Aztec lands are inviting -with the implication that Greece should also be removed within a short time...
Or Denizli, to the east -of course, this would mean the end of Carthage (but I suspect that that is coming anyway...).
There are two or three alternative routes that we can take: what is our collective feeling?
Here what happened
Pre-turn
Greece have some cash and two workers. I don't resist trading them wines + furs for 70 gp, 1 gpt, WM and two workers.
Our army: we have 3 Explorers, 12 Warriors and 1 Archer which I am very tempted to disband. Disbanded.
Hurry Library in Verulamium, Cattaraugus, Texcoco and Hispalis, Temple in Denizli.
IT - Endless troop movements through our lands. I don't think Greece will last very long...
Turn 1 - 610 AD
Adrianople and Iznik: Sipahi -> Settler
Hispalis: Library -> Temple
Konya: Cathedral -> Sipahi
Adana: Musket -> Musket
Denizli: Temple -> Marketplace
Conquered Tlaxcala, no losses.
IT - A lone Sipahi is brutally murdered by two Aztec Longbows outside Teotihuacan.
Greece and Babylon sign a peace treaty.
Renew peace with Rome (poor old Julius
)Turn 2 - 620 AD
Constantinople: Settler -> Sipahi
Conquered Allegheny - one loss, one promotion to Elite.
Attacked Tenochtitlan. Killed four Pikes, lost one Sipahi + two redlined (to a regular Pikemen...). Lost another Sipahi.
We discover Democracy, which we can trade to Celts and Babs.
I take a small risk and play one more turn to see if I can end the war with Zuma.
IT - Zulu and Greece sign peace
Do not renew RoP with Celts.
Turn 3 - 630 AD
Adrianople: Settler -> Sipahi
Iznik: Settler -> Sipahi
Attack Tenochtitlan. Killed one defender and two Longbows.
Three more Sipahi redlined (call it bad luck). And, before you ask, yes, I did bombard the stupid Aztecs with what Cannons I had -all failed, of course...
The city did not fall, having a single 2-hp Pikeman left.
Conquer Oil Springs with one more loss -definitely not my turn, this one. Should have stayed at home sipping a cup of tea...
But, in a masterful display of compensation, destiny gives us a Great Leader!
So I pause here
Democracy is still tradeable.
The Celts are really screaming to be wiped out of the map, and this trading round is right now our best chance to draw Babylon against them and break their MPP.
Democracy would actually give us gold + MPP with Babylon (checked). That would do the trick but would force us into a war with Greece -Bab and Greece are at peace, but Celts units in Greek territory aren't...
I couldn't clearly check it, but we could declare on Brennus and try to sign a MA with Hammurabi. This is riskier though.
In addition, the Zulus would gladly join this war should we need their help.
On the other hand, attacking the Celts now -with several of their units and most of our Sipahi in the Aztec area- could be a bit rushed -we have 34 Sipahi right now, some of which are watching the borders with Babylon and Persia.
Trading Democracy with a peaceful mind would bring us about 150 - 200 gp and 50-60 gpt (I haven't checked all the civs, but I doubt they could contribute significantly) in addition to the last MA techs.
I have kept both options open.
Then, the Leader. I would personally use it to move our Palace.Where?
The newly-conquered Aztec lands are inviting -with the implication that Greece should also be removed within a short time...
Or Denizli, to the east -of course, this would mean the end of Carthage (but I suspect that that is coming anyway...).
There are two or three alternative routes that we can take: what is our collective feeling?
Yes, the wonderful lands was one of the lures for a war with the Aztecs. I vote for a Palace move. The diplo I have to think a bit more on. Will be back later on that.
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If Babylon has a MPP with the Celts, then surely declaring on the Celts (whether or not we hold a MPP with Babylon) would cause the Babs to come in on the side of the Celts 
Or have I not been keeping up?
The palace jump was always part of the plan and is the very best thing you can do with a leader. The best place for a palace I really couldn't comment on as I can't run civ at work anymore, and my memory isn't that good. The Aztechs are on the SW leg of the cross IIRC. Is the land broad enough to have a complete ring of cities? If not then I would tend to favour a Palace in the east, where we can get a complete ring. It may be more mountainous, but the shield potential is high.
I think it would be a good idea to trade democracy. The AI would get a couple of turns of anarchy straight away and would help any war. Obviously you will never get more for it than you will right now anyway.
Really I need an explanation of how we can get Babylon not to go to war against us if we declare on Brennus. I don't know how we could get that to work.
Or have I not been keeping up?The palace jump was always part of the plan and is the very best thing you can do with a leader. The best place for a palace I really couldn't comment on as I can't run civ at work anymore, and my memory isn't that good. The Aztechs are on the SW leg of the cross IIRC. Is the land broad enough to have a complete ring of cities? If not then I would tend to favour a Palace in the east, where we can get a complete ring. It may be more mountainous, but the shield potential is high.
I think it would be a good idea to trade democracy. The AI would get a couple of turns of anarchy straight away and would help any war. Obviously you will never get more for it than you will right now anyway.
Really I need an explanation of how we can get Babylon not to go to war against us if we declare on Brennus. I don't know how we could get that to work.
The MPP forces you to declare war once an attack takes place between two units IIRC, and not when war is declared.
So, I would sign MPP with Babylon, declare on Brennus and wait for a unit of his to attack us.
So, I would sign MPP with Babylon, declare on Brennus and wait for a unit of his to attack us.
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Are the Aztecs completely finished?
If so then I think I'd use our GL for a Palace as far SW as possible (with some settlers to abandoned Greek territory).
The Demo/MPP deal with Babylon - we could make the deal but not declare war on Brennus until our Sipahi have healed & returned to the North (2 maybe 3 turns).
I haven't got a clear picture of where everyone is and at what strength so this is just my best guess.
Ted
If so then I think I'd use our GL for a Palace as far SW as possible (with some settlers to abandoned Greek territory).
The Demo/MPP deal with Babylon - we could make the deal but not declare war on Brennus until our Sipahi have healed & returned to the North (2 maybe 3 turns).
I haven't got a clear picture of where everyone is and at what strength so this is just my best guess.
Ted
This is the Aztec-Greek peninsula. The last Aztec cities should fall next turn (barring another string of bad rolls...).
A few settlers are already on their way.
I would place the Palace in Cattaraugus (with at least two more cities founded in the open areas, possibly three). In the longer term, it would be nicer to acquire those blue and green cities to the west...
The other area (below) already has larger cities, considering of course the two carthaginian cities to complete a full ring around Denizli. This choice looks a bit less aggressive to me.
Whatever we do with MPPs, MAs or the like, I think there is no way to avoid some fighting in the Aztec region -lots of Celt and Bab troops; plus, if we MPP anyone we are going to have to declare on Greece sooner or later.
The Babylonians look pretty strong, having some Cavalry and Infantry in delicate territories for us (and very likely one or two more IA techs).
The Celts on the other hand have sent very few troops across our territory in the last turns, and I haven't seen any Cav. In this sense, this would be a good setting for a war against them (with Babylon as an ally), as most of their troops are already in enemy territory and would have to fight all the Greek and Bab units before getting back to us.
I will have to leave some Sipahi in the SW anyway, as there are only a few Muskets and a few more coming down quite slowly.
What looks feasible from this point of view is:
- Trade Demo for techs and cash only (but no gpt from Brennus)
- Wipe the Aztecs and try to consolidate the SW a little bit.
- Move as many Sipahi as possible towards Celts (at least three turns)
- Declare war on Brennus and try to sign a MA (unlikely) or MPP (more likely, possibly expensive) with Hammurabi.
In the second case, hope that our MPP causes Hammurabi to break his with the Celts before it draws him in a war against Greece again (we don't want to break our trades with Greece right now).
If we decide that this approach is too rushed, I can peacefully settle the SW and consolidate our global domains...
A few settlers are already on their way.
I would place the Palace in Cattaraugus (with at least two more cities founded in the open areas, possibly three). In the longer term, it would be nicer to acquire those blue and green cities to the west...
The other area (below) already has larger cities, considering of course the two carthaginian cities to complete a full ring around Denizli. This choice looks a bit less aggressive to me.
Whatever we do with MPPs, MAs or the like, I think there is no way to avoid some fighting in the Aztec region -lots of Celt and Bab troops; plus, if we MPP anyone we are going to have to declare on Greece sooner or later.
The Babylonians look pretty strong, having some Cavalry and Infantry in delicate territories for us (and very likely one or two more IA techs).
The Celts on the other hand have sent very few troops across our territory in the last turns, and I haven't seen any Cav. In this sense, this would be a good setting for a war against them (with Babylon as an ally), as most of their troops are already in enemy territory and would have to fight all the Greek and Bab units before getting back to us.
I will have to leave some Sipahi in the SW anyway, as there are only a few Muskets and a few more coming down quite slowly.
What looks feasible from this point of view is:
- Trade Demo for techs and cash only (but no gpt from Brennus)
- Wipe the Aztecs and try to consolidate the SW a little bit.
- Move as many Sipahi as possible towards Celts (at least three turns)
- Declare war on Brennus and try to sign a MA (unlikely) or MPP (more likely, possibly expensive) with Hammurabi.
In the second case, hope that our MPP causes Hammurabi to break his with the Celts before it draws him in a war against Greece again (we don't want to break our trades with Greece right now).
If we decide that this approach is too rushed, I can peacefully settle the SW and consolidate our global domains...
TedJackson
Cunning old Celt
Tricky,
My heart wants to fight but my brain wants to consolidate
Ted
My heart wants to fight but my brain wants to consolidate
Ted
- Joined
- Jan 24, 2003
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- 5,242
I vote for taking on the Celts. From what Karasu says they appear to have shot their bolt, and also they are driving the insane tech pace (along with Babylon). They need to go. Perhaps Karasu could just prepare the way for NP to start the war on his turn. A few turns peace to get the Sipahi north with a one turn stop in a rax to heal might be the ticket.
I like both of Karasus suggestions for a Palace move and would be perfectly happy with either.
I like both of Karasus suggestions for a Palace move and would be perfectly happy with either.
Oh, Mad-Bax... you are talking to my heart's desire... 
Anyway, I won't be able to resume playing for a few hours yet, so we have time to make and reverse decisions many more times.
Anyway, I won't be able to resume playing for a few hours yet, so we have time to make and reverse decisions many more times.
