NES/IOT Merger Poll

[NinjaCow64]

I'm missing something here:

Can someone explain what potential micracilous benefits we would gain from a merger?

Additionally,

Can someone explain what terrible calamity would befall both communities if we were merged?

Because I don't understand the fuss. I might have at one point but not anymore. Please, someone explain to me.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

By current I would mean someone who has participated in a game there in the past few months, November through January. I am not interested in extending special consideration to persons not recently participating here.

You are aware that many of the people on this forum are high school and university students, correct? I realize it's been a long time since you were in university, but you must recall that November - January is usually the busiest time of year for students, what with mid-term exams, term projects coming due, and studying for final exams.

It isn't fair to exclude people from voting because they have this thing called an offline life and may not have had time for forum activities during these months.

Also, Lefty and Birdjaguar, please consider this: Some people left - whether temporarily or permanently - because they felt the staff here don't respect them or think their opinions matter. By finding all these reasons to exclude people from having valid votes or subjecting these hypothetical votes to some convoluted formula, you are just going to give them even more reason to believe you don't respect them or value their opinions.

Why not find ways to be inclusive instead of exclusive? You might find that some of these people would come back (or participate more here if they didn't leave).

 

[JohannaK]

Now I think a comprehensive list of both NESers and IOTers, if such things were necessary in the first place, could be made by looking at who played/participated either in the last year rather than two months in which most of NESing dirched CFC for The Frontier.

 

[Thlayli]

Also, Lefty and Birdjaguar, please consider this: Some people left - whether temporarily or permanently - because they felt the staff here don't respect them or think their opinions matter. By finding all these reasons to exclude people from having valid votes or subjecting these hypothetical votes to some convoluted formula, you are just going to give them even more reason to believe you don't respect them or value their opinions.

Why not find ways to be inclusive instead of exclusive? You might find that some of these people would come back (or participate more here if they didn't leave).

Truer words have never been written.

 

[BSmith1068]

My perspective is that any past or current member of either IOT or NES should be able to have their voice heard. What I would frown upon is if we had a number of people that have never posted in either IOT or NES, or a number of members that joined the forums in the past week or so voting in this poll. I think we can all agree that those kinds of voters have much less likelihood of being a real member of the community expressing their opinion.

That said I would hope that if anyone has decided to permanently leave this forum (for whatever reason) that they take the high road and not come back and try to influence things. I don't think that is currently happening.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

This skews it drastically since not all NESers play in games at all times, but do participate in the community. By limiting it to NESers using CFC since November, you're cutting out 90% of the community from this vote.

Uh no, read again, that was in the part about possibly allowing either of the two active communities here to have a veto to override an overall yes vote/annexation.
The way the vote is running, that is a rather unlikely hypothetical anyway.

 

[Luckymoose]

Uh no, read again, that was in the part about possibly allowing either of the two active communities here to have a veto to override an overall yes vote/annexation.
The way the vote is running, that is a rather unlikely hypothetical anyway.

Again, the no vote has very little to do with what what of this poll and more to do with the how. The way you've pushed to remove segments and segregate the vote is completely unwelcome in such a public poll of communities. You haven't taken the time to consider how absolutely unfamiliar you are with either community or who/what/how they operate when you toss out weird deadlines of activity or other stipulations.

No one cares about the merger so much as how CFC staff is carrying this out, treating the communities, and ignoring concern. Birdjaguar mentioned some fractional voting system? What the hell are we to you people? Last I checked I wasn't being shipped off to pick cotton in Mississippi.

 

[Sonereal]

A few quick napkin calculations shows about 83% of IOTers are in favor and about 61% of NESers are in favor, based on some users counting in the IOT and NES/Frontier categories. Assuming no crossovers, 82% of IOT is down and 57% of NES. I'm sure over the next two days everybody and their mum will come in here with their own counting systems, But IOT is largely in favor regardless so really, it is down to NES.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Again, the no vote has very little to do with what what of this poll and more to do with the how. The way you've pushed to remove segments and segregate the vote is completely unwelcome in such a public poll of communities. You haven't taken the time to consider how absolutely unfamiliar you are with either community or who/what/how they operate when you toss out weird deadlines of activity or other stipulations.

No one cares about the merger so much as how CFC staff is carrying this out, treating the communities, and ignoring concern. Birdjaguar mentioned some fractional voting system? What the hell are we to you people? Last I checked I wasn't being shipped off to pick cotton in Mississippi.

We are not actively ignoring any concerns so far expressed in this thread. Both Lefty and Birdjaguar have mentioned possible ways that we could treat the individual votes. I will be looking over the votes once the poll closes, and really the time between now and then would be better spent campaigning in favor of or against the merger on the merits or detractions of the merger alone rather than the methodology. If a decision is made that does not seem to be reflective of the results of the poll, reasoning will be posted for that.

 

[Sonereal]

Now I think a comprehensive list of both NESers and IOTers, if such things were necessary in the first place, could be made by looking at who played/participated either in the last year rather than two months in which most of NESing dirched CFC for The Frontier.

Doing this will disproportionately hurt the no votes.

 

[Luckymoose]

We are not actively ignoring any concerns so far expressed in this thread. Both Lefty and Birdjaguar have mentioned possible ways that we could treat the individual votes. I will be looking over the votes once the poll closes, and really the time between now and then would be better spent campaigning in favor of or against the merger on the merits or detractions of the merger alone rather than the methodology. If a decision is made that does not seem to be reflective of the results of the poll, reasoning will be posted for that.

Maybe, but if we ignore the way this is handled you'll continue to do it this way for future votes on changes to the community.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

My perspective is that any past or current member of either IOT or NES should be able to have their voice heard. What I would frown upon is if we had a number of people that have never posted in either IOT or NES, or a number of members that joined the forums in the past week or so voting in this poll. I think we can all agree that those kinds of voters have much less likelihood of being a real member of the community expressing their opinion.

That said I would hope that if anyone has decided to permanently leave this forum (for whatever reason) that they take the high road and not come back and try to influence things. I don't think that is currently happening.

Excellent. This is how I hope the situation is developing. And please - none of this "some votes only count for a quarter/half/three-quarters" nonsense. One person, one vote. That's the only fair way to do it.

We are not actively ignoring any concerns so far expressed in this thread. Both Lefty and Birdjaguar have mentioned possible ways that we could treat the individual votes. I will be looking over the votes once the poll closes, and really the time between now and then would be better spent campaigning in favor of or against the merger on the merits or detractions of the merger alone rather than the methodology.

The methodology matters. How would you feel if you were given the opportunity to vote in a RL referendum or other kind of poll if you knew your vote would only count for half or a quarter, while another person's vote would be counted as a whole vote? To say that some votes count for less is incredibly disrespectful of the populace since it makes "some votes more equal than others."

Maybe, but if we ignore the way this is handled you'll continue to do it this way for future votes on changes to the community.

Precedent matters, too. I really hope this notion of some votes only count as a fraction of others nonsense gets tossed in the trash can where it belongs, so it doesn't crop up in any other possible future forum issues. It's a downright ugly thing to say that just because someone hasn't been active for a specific period of time (they may have had pressing RL concerns that kept them away, or an extended ban) or if they belong to other forums where the activity in question is going on, that they shouldn't be allowed to vote or if they do, their votes count for less than someone else's.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Ok, I'm going to post this in bolded letters because I'm increasing frustrated with constantly repeating myself and considering a future as a hermit lumberjack in some Canadian forest. (And I hate snow! And Canadians!)

I posted this thread, I'll be looking over the votes. I may ask other moderators about individuals who voted that I don't know just to make sure that they're either members of the IOT or NESing community. If you haven't been involved in either an NES or IOT in the past 3 years, I'd hardly qualify you as part of the community. I will care however if someone posts on this thread changing their vote or adding a caveat about a "yes" or "no" vote. For the most part, I figure if a person who has left cares enough to be here to vote, they still at some level are part of the community. There will be no weighted or fractional votes. Of course, I've heard stories that on the internet and throughout the world there are occasionally dishonest people who will do whatever they want to mess up other people's things intentionally even if they have no vested interest in them. I sincerely hope that this is not the case with NESers. This poll is only focusing on whether or not there will be a merger.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

BirdJaguar's brainstorm about fractional votes was rather odd. He is known for thinking outside the box and coming up with innovative ideas. I do not know where this one came from, but I know where it is (not) going to the land.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Again, the no vote has very little to do with what what of this poll and more to do with the how.

And the no vote is losing rather badly, if your hypothesis hold water, what that that tell us about feelings about the how?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Ok, I'm going to post this in bolded letters because I'm increasing frustrated with constantly repeating myself and considering a future as a hermit lumberjack in some Canadian forest. (And I hate snow! And Canadians!)

Read my location. If this part of your post was supposed to be funny, it failed. Big time.

Joking about something like this in OT is one thing. But here in Site Feedback is entirely different. This was disrespectful toward the Canadian members of this forum.

 

[Luckymoose]

And the no vote is losing rather badly, if your hypothesis hold water, what that that tell us about feelings about the how?

Cause a lot of voters aren't voting based on that, but on the merger. I can count several Yes votes who agree with me but voted for the merger. This isn't about the merger, but the way you and the staff are handling this. You can be smug all you want, but the community is extremely conscious of this kind of bologna.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

Huggles and purrs for Valka. I still like you, and Canadians. :hugsmiliethatwedonothave:

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Read my location. If this part of your post was supposed to be funny, it failed. Big time.

Joking about something like this in OT is one thing. But here in Site Feedback is entirely different. This was disrespectful toward the Canadian members of this forum.

Read my location. This morning I almost got run over by a Canadian. Second time this week. I'm not even joking.

I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not. Still if you are, I was using emphasis to make a point about how frustrated I am. I sincerely apologize if you're a hermit Canadian lumberjack.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

You can be smug all you want,

I have got smug down pat. I mastered it before there was an internet, even before you were born.