pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Inca

[stealth_nsk]

Definitely now in the camp that thinks having historical paths at all was a mistake. You need way more civs than is realistic for it to work smoothly and make everyone happy. To get the most out of this game, you've just got to go all in on switching imo.

I think historical paths should be kept for AI to use as default.

For human players, I'd like to see either free choice, or unlock conditions for every exploration+ civ. Not being able to choose some civs at all doesn't seem to add choice.

 

[Evolena]

I can see how "free-to-choose" would have been unpopular with some people (see Egypt > Mongols polemics), but no one forces you to choose paths you don't believe in.

Some people argue that then, they would always choose the "best" min-maxing choice (because that is how they are used to play, and for some it is very hard to play against their habits) even if it is one they cannot believe in, and that "choose the best" was pinned as the reason why Humankind failed.
Ed said in a Q&A (with boesthus I think) that the first iteration they tried was with free choice, but that was not that satisfying and after testing with some limitation it felt way better.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Some people argue that then, they would always choose the "best" min-maxing choice (because that is how they are used to play, and for some it is very hard to play against their habits) even if it is one they cannot believe in, and that "choose the best" was pinned as the reason why Humankind failed.
Ed said in a Q&A (with boesthus I think) that the first iteration they tried was with free choice, but that was not that satisfying and after testing with some limitation it felt way better.

Ok, this means I'm wrong. As always in game design, only testing could tell what is right.

Still, I wonder if having unlock conditions for all civs would work.

 

[UWHabs]

Inca would be a prime candidate to have an unlock for them as "have X mountains in your territory". So if your ancient era start was nestled in a mountain valley, you could switch to a mountain-focused civ in the next era to really work them.

 

[Evolena]

Ok, this means I'm wrong. As always in game design, only testing could tell what is right.

I don't know of right of wrong, but yes, I believe in testing too.
And from a game design book I once read, it is also all about what experience you want to deliver. What would be right for one experience could be wrong for another.
And somehow we can even see that here, as for the multiplayer experience it's all free choice.

 

[chaosprophet]

I think historical paths should be kept for AI to use as default.

I don't mind it being the default, but I would like an option, even if not at launch, to completely randomize them. Would even like an option where each civ, even the player's, get two random free unlocks instead of the default ones.

Some people argue that then, they would always choose the "best" min-maxing choice (because that is how they are used to play, and for some it is very hard to play against their habits) even if it is one they cannot believe in, and that "choose the best" was pinned as the reason why Humankind failed.
Ed said in a Q&A (with boesthus I think) that the first iteration they tried was with free choice, but that was not that satisfying and after testing with some limitation it felt way better.

Ok, this means I'm wrong. As always in game design, only testing could tell what is right.

Still, I wonder if having unlock conditions for all civs would work.

It is at this section of the interview. Albeit my interpretation of it, is that the structure helped, on the player side, mostly to not have too much choice at once. Which would be if every game you can pick any civ from the next, but can still mean every civ has a gameplay unlock, as you would likely only unlock a few each playthrough. Heck, if some civs couldn't be unlocked at all if you weren't playing an specific leader or civ on previous age, then wouldn't make sense to show all 11 on the screen to pick exploration civ on the Antiquity stream. They being there implies they could all possibly been unlocked at a game.

 

[Evolena]

It is at this section of the interview. Albeit my interpretation of it, is that the structure helped, on the player side, mostly to not have too much choice at once. Which would be if every game you can pick any civ from the next, but can still mean every civ has a gameplay unlock, as you would likely only unlock a few each playthrough. Heck, if some civs couldn't be unlocked at all if you weren't playing an specific leader or civ on previous age, then wouldn't make sense to show all 11 on the screen to pick exploration civ on the Antiquity stream. They being there implies they could all possibly been unlocked at a game.

It's not incompatible. We know there is Leader unlocks and Civ unlock, and I believe there is also a gameplay unlock for every Civ. It's still not "full free choice".

 

[chaosprophet]

It's not incompatible. We know there is Leader unlocks and Civ unlock, and I believe there is also a gameplay unlock for every Civ. It's still not "full free choice".

I agree, but it seemed like, at least stealth understood your post as unlocks for everyone not being the case, but maybe it is just me who misunderstood his post.

 

[CivKirk64]

I just wish every Civ had a "Horses" option. Something situational to how your previous era went. Did you focus on Culture, Economics or Science, Do you have cities on the coast, Rivers, Mountains. Do you have access to many luxuries.
That way I can synergize with how my game has gone so far, or stay thematic to civ or leader.

 

[Evolena]

I agree, but it seemed like, at least stealth understood your post as unlocks for everyone not being the case, but maybe it is just me who misunderstood his post.

He's posted while I was writing, I didn't see it

 

[Krikkit1]

I just wish every Civ had a "Horses" option. Something situational to how your previous era went. Did you focus on Culture, Economics or Science, Do you have cities on the coast, Rivers, Mountains. Do you have access to many luxuries.
That way I can synergize with how my game has gone so far, or stay thematic to civ or leader.

Hopefully that is the case (there are some promising signs, the Start bias for a number of the exploration civs have to do with resources)

 

[TheGhostEnthusiast]

Hopefully that is the case (there are some promising signs, the Start bias for a number of the exploration civs have to do with resources)

They also mention the Normans having a gameplay unlock condition that isn't shown in the Antiquity stream, specifically in the context of the game reacting to the player's decisions. I'd be willing to bet on every civ getting one.

 

[CivKirk64]

They also mention the Normans having a gameplay unlock condition that isn't shown in the Antiquity stream, specifically in the context of the game reacting to the player's decisions. I'd be willing to bet on every civ getting one.

My worry for this was in the last live steam, Spain only had Rome, Greeks , Isabella, as listed unlocks.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

All we know for sure about the unlocks is that they apply to human players.

I strongly suspect that the AI does not face unlocks. We know the AI has historical preferences, a sort of priority set for what civ to pick. But I doubt that set would have a great deal of depth to it, and having their priorities taken by other leaders would result in the AI leader picking at random from the rest of the available civs.

 

[Evolena]

My worry for this was in the last live steam, Spain only had Rome, Greeks , Isabella, as listed unlocks.

Or it's not on that part of the UI.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

 

[Krikkit1]

All we know for sure about the unlocks is that they apply to human players.

I strongly suspect that the AI does not face unlocks. We know the AI has historical preferences, a sort of priority set for what civ to pick. But I doubt that set would have a great deal of depth to it, and having their priorities taken by other leaders would result in the AI leader picking at random from the rest of the available civs.

I don't see why the AI wouldn't face unlocks.... if their civ/leader based unlocks are duplicates, they could either make a duplicate or choose from one of their gameplay unlocks.

The issue with them choosing a completely random civ is if they randomly select, say Inca without any mountains in/near their territory, that would be a big disadvantage. it would be far better for them to randomly select from their gameplay unlocks (or just do a duplicate of their preferred civ)

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don't see why the AI wouldn't face unlocks.... if their civ/leader based unlocks are duplicates, they could either make a duplicate or choose from one of their gameplay unlocks.

The issue with them choosing a completely random civ is if they randomly select, say Inca without any mountains in/near their territory, that would be a big disadvantage. it would be far better for them to randomly select from their gameplay unlocks (or just do a duplicate of their preferred civ)

Because if they have unlocks and all the civs they have unlocked get taken by other AIs, then they are blocked.

We know they have choice priorities, and that's probably the extent of their limitations.

 

[Krikkit1]

Because if they have unlocks and all the civs they have unlocked get taken by other AIs, then they are blocked.

We know they have choice priorities, and that's probably the extent of their limitations.

Then they just do a duplicate.... humans do it in MP, no reason why AIs couldn't as well.

(but I agree that one of those limitations doesn't apply, either they can select from all civs and not worry about unlocks only unduplicated priorities, OR they can select a preferred duplicate when all of their unlocks are taken)

 

[Thenewwwguy]

love to see Inca and Pachacuti back, but the Inca basically are EXACTLY the same from civ 6…