pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Qing

[AriochIV]

The video short has views of the Gusa unique unit.

 

[Sagax]

View attachment 714487
Qing's Background Art

And it’s been staring at us since the very first showcase trailer when they were showing Confucius as an example of a non-ruler leader. Of note, the art has been tweaked since then.

 

[seasnake]

Best China theme yet in my opinion, grand yet grounded in traditional music. Very fitting for the modern era.

 

[queenpea]

I’ve been waiting to hear from that very vocal anti-Qing fanatic all day. But I suppose they have either hyperventilated over today’s game guide or been banned from posting.

 

[dagriggstar]

Yeah ummm the whole bonuses for imported resources thing just makes me think of the opium trade which is something I thought would have a high priority to avoid.

Like if each resource provided double whatever benefit that resource provides yeah sure that’s flexible enough to feel like it’s referencing widespread use of resources in an economy. But the whole it has to be imported thing just adds that extra layer of uhhh yeah…

Outside of that I’m generally positive and love the Chengde mountain resort pick.

 

[Zaarin]

Yeah ummm the whole bonuses for imported resources thing just makes me think of the opium trade

"Would you care to make a trade agreement with England?"

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

View attachment 714487
Qing's Background Art

Having the two Leaders face each other would be so much more palatable if they were in front of the background art instead of those awful flags. I hope Firaxis considers changing that aspect of the User Interface

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Yeah ummm the whole bonuses for imported resources thing just makes me think of the opium trade which is something I thought would have a high priority to avoid.

The opium trade was what brought China into the story of Western history in a significant way for the first time since Marco Polo. I’m glad that such is the focus of the Qing civilization

 

[gdr_willter]

The opium trade was what brought China into the story of Western history in a significant way for the first time since Marco Polo. I’m glad that such is the focus of the Qing civilization

It's not true. Chinese merchandises like tea and -obviously- china(pottery) were very famous and beloved in European nobles. And even the great British empire had some trouble from the trade with Qing, because they got in deficit in the trade balance. This was the main reason why British decided to sell illegal opium in Qing.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Nice to another civ with a bonus/malus. Also nice not to see a third incarnation of the Great Wall.

1. Qing leadership is Manchu. they're horselords, and did not beliefs in the benefits of Ten Thousand Miles Walls. because they were indeed peoples who crossed this 'Barrier that divided Barbarian horselords and Civilized citymen apart'.
Is it easly to surmise that Chinese 'Great Walls' solutions is a total waste of public resources and China should instead invest in logistics to support Defense in Depth ?
2. This will sure recreates how Qing becomes a backward civilization and how Qing lose so many wars since Opium Wars.

 

[Bast]

Is it possible to start only from Exploration age and play through to Modern age? If so, I may want to try Mongols -> Qing. A Mongol-Manchu led civilization.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

The opium trade was what brought China into the story of Western history in a significant way for the first time since Marco Polo. I’m glad that such is the focus of the Qing civilization

It was part of Trade Wars between China and the Western World.
Opium trade was actually a British solutions to substitute Silver. which British Empire has to import from Latin America (partiucularly Mexico, and Chile, Note that 'Liberated Latin Americas' became trade partners with British Empire right off the bat, (this might explains the British Involvements in the Revolutionary Wars in Latin America).
Any attempts to negotiate fair trade with China failed. British Empire felt that China has becoming more and more of Eastern Mafia. (And Chinese, from time to time, always believed themself being the 'Most Civilized Race on Earth.' and themself 'Central of the Universe' and 'Everybody else shall cowtow to them, and their leaders'. This contradicts to Free Economy to the core. something that Europe experiences the boom of it, especially the Anglophones (British, and shortly later Americans.). 'Something has to be done' or China will drain Britain to its core, force them to bankrupt.

Why I can say 'Eastern Mafia'? Because China only accepts Silver. Nothing else.
and before you can buy Chinese exotic goods (of that time, particularly tea (茶, the word 'Tea' is Teocheow's dialect of the word 'Cha', while everyone else use mandarin 'Cha' to call this beverage.) you must pay tribute to the Emperor of China. Those in Southeast Asia has no problems with it, particularly Siamese who even exploited Tributary trades to capitalize their (or our, as myself a siamese) and earn massive cuts when sell it to the West. (even to Portuguese and Dutch traders regardless that BOTH has trading posts somewhere in Southeast China. ). This trade fueled BOTH Ayutthaya and Rattanakosin Empires respective supremacy to be on par with two big continental Southeast Asian rivals that flanked them. Burma (Particularly Hanthawaddy and later Kaungbaung Empires) and Dai Viet (Especially Nguyen dynasty of Hue), and ones that quickly restored its Empire after Ayutthaya fell. Europeans however considered this 'an extortion'.

To the British Empire 'Something must be done'.

 

[notNamed]

1. Qing leadership is Manchu. they're horselords.

Manchu are as much of horselords as are Japanese, Chinese, English or Germans.
They were a settled people living in towns and villages, mostly farming.

Yes they used horses in warfare but... so did the Ming, European knights and so on. All settled people.

 

[Zaarin]

Is it possible to start only from Exploration age and play through to Modern age? If so, I may want to try Mongols -> Qing. A Mongol-Manchu led civilization.

I'm not sure if we've been told if that's possible explicitly, but it seems like it should be. If not at release, I could see it being patched in sooner or later.

 

[sTAPler27]

Inb4, the Great Firewall wonder makes a comeback haha.

Just wait until they add a 4th age with modern China

 

[sTAPler27]

Qing Uniques!

If you do this for every civ you are an actual legend. Sometimes I look up the names and nothing comes up but the Civ Wiki page

 

[8housesofelixir]

Qing Uniques!

Kang Qian Shengshi	Ability	康乾盛世; "Kang[xi]-Qian[long] Golden Age"	The period of time spanning from the reign of Emperor Kangxi to the reign of Emperor Qianlong, noted as the heyday or golden age of the Qing; Also known as the High Qing or Kang Yong Qian Shengshi
Ten Great Campaigns	Civic		A series of military campaigns during the reign of the Qianlong Emperor, targeting Central Asia, Taiwan, Burma, Vietnam, Tibet, and Sichuan
Open Customs	Civic		Unsure if this is a particular reference, or just a description of China's (often forceful) opening to foreign trade during the Qing
Kang Xi Tax Reformation	Civic		Refers to the tax reforms made under the Kangxi Emperor; he made remissions, and froze land and corvee taxes in 1712
Stabilizing Frontier	Civic		Potentially a reference to the mission of many of the Ten Great Campaigns to stabilize the frontier regions of the Qing
Chuang Guandong	Tradition	闖關東; "Crashing into Guandong"	The rush of Han people into Manchuria in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, resulting in Han Chinese becoming a majority in the area
Cohong	Tradition	公行; "Public Trade"	A guild of merchants that operated the import-export monopoly in Guangzhou. Prior to the First Opium War, "trade relations between China and Europe took place exclusively via the Cohong"
Farmland Assessment	Tradition		Unsure of specific reference.
Banner Army	Tradition		Administrative and military divisions that originated under Nurhaci and in place during the Later Jin and Qing dynasties. Considered to be the elite forces of the Qing military until their failure to suppress the Taiping Rebellion
Huiguan	Quarter	會館; "guild hall; clan association"; lit. "gathering house"	A guildhall or assembly hall - A famous example would be the Huguang Huiguan in Chongqing - a complex containing many venues including those for business/trade and social activities
Shiguan	Building	試舘/試館 lit. "examination office/building"	A reference to the imperial examinations for selecting bureaucrats; the examinations date back to the Sui Dynasty and lasted until 1905.
Qianzhuang	Building	錢莊; lit. "coin farm"	Independent and private Chinese banks; first appeared during the Ming Dynasty, but greatly proliferated during the Qing. Were more likely to invest in riskier business practices compared to the larger nation-wide banking networks
Hangshang	Civilian	行商; "itinerant trader, travelling merchant"	The Chinese merchants who made up the Cohong
Gusa	Military	ᡤᡡᠰᠠ (Manchu, gūsa)	A Banner (see Banner Army)

Chinese historian here - some FYI:

Shiguan 試舘 was where the civil service exam takers lived. The exams are only held in county seats, provincial capitals, and Beijing itself, and the examinees need to travel to these locations and live there for a while for the test. Housing local examinees was a vital function of Huiguan (see below).

Huiguan 會舘 is short for 同鄉會舘, or "regional associations," an organization for supporting people from the same region or hometown - imagine them as little "embassies" for a specific area in non-local regions. They were gathering places, could offer housing for fellow locals (hence the Shiguan function), and, as an organization, could raise money to help with businesses. The last function eventually gave rise to the concept of Kongsi.

Farmland Assessment, although not a direct translation, refers to the fiscal policy of 摊丁入亩, lit. "apportioning the levy tax into the land tax." With this policy, the levy tax or head tax was abandoned entirely, which encouraged the landless peasants to work freely (as they were now exempted from taxation). This was the last puzzle piece of the Kangzi Tax Reform, although only implemented during Yongzheng's reign.

(Note: I checked the Chinese 2k page, and the "Farmland Assessment" is directly translated into Chinese as 农田评估. I would recommend changing the Chinese localization to 摊丁入亩 to refer to the actual historical policy. @FXS_Sar - would you mind pass this suggestion to the Chinese localization team?)

The 行 in 行商 is the same as in 公行, but we are facing an interesting case of homograph here. This 行 is pronounced as hang2, which means "guild," "business," or "industry"; for instance, 银行, "bank," is lit. "silver guild." Meanwhile, the "itinerant" or "traveling" 行 is pronounced xing2. 行商 xingshang and 行商 hangshang are two very different words!

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

The opium trade was what brought China into the story of Western history in a significant way for the first time since Marco Polo. I’m glad that such is the focus of the Qing civilization

Not at all true.
The cornerstone of the Spanish New World trade, starting in the 16th century, was China.

That was because China's coinage was based on silver, and China did not have enough silver to power its huge internal economy.
The answer was (South) American silver, delivered by Spanish ships to Manila where they traded with Chinese merchants for Chinese goods like porcelain and silk, which then went back to Spain and Europe. In total value, this trade from America to China to Europe taking a profit for Spain at every stop may have been worth more than the direct movement of gold and silver from the Americas to Spain

- And yes, I shall be looking to see if I can pull off something similar in Civ VII with the new Trade Network system . . .

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Qing Uniques!

Kang Qian Shengshi	Ability	康乾盛世; "Kang[xi]-Qian[long] Golden Age"	The period of time spanning from the reign of Emperor Kangxi to the reign of Emperor Qianlong, noted as the heyday or golden age of the Qing; Also known as the High Qing or Kang Yong Qian Shengshi
Ten Great Campaigns	Civic		A series of military campaigns during the reign of the Qianlong Emperor, targeting Central Asia, Taiwan, Burma, Vietnam, Tibet, and Sichuan
Open Customs	Civic		Unsure if this is a particular reference, or just a description of China's (often forceful) opening to foreign trade during the Qing
Kang Xi Tax Reformation	Civic		Refers to the tax reforms made under the Kangxi Emperor; he made remissions, and froze land and corvee taxes in 1712
Stabilizing Frontier	Civic		Potentially a reference to the mission of many of the Ten Great Campaigns to stabilize the frontier regions of the Qing
Chuang Guandong	Tradition	闖關東; "Crashing into Guandong"	The rush of Han people into Manchuria in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, resulting in Han Chinese becoming a majority in the area
Cohong	Tradition	公行; "Public Trade"	A guild of merchants that operated the import-export monopoly in Guangzhou. Prior to the First Opium War, "trade relations between China and Europe took place exclusively via the Cohong"
Farmland Assessment	Tradition		Unsure of specific reference.
Banner Army	Tradition		Administrative and military divisions that originated under Nurhaci and in place during the Later Jin and Qing dynasties. Considered to be the elite forces of the Qing military until their failure to suppress the Taiping Rebellion
Huiguan	Quarter	會館; "guild hall; clan association"; lit. "gathering house"	A guildhall or assembly hall - A famous example would be the Huguang Huiguan in Chongqing - a complex containing many venues including those for business/trade and social activities
Shiguan	Building	試舘/試館 lit. "examination office/building"	A reference to the imperial examinations for selecting bureaucrats; the examinations date back to the Sui Dynasty and lasted until 1905.
Qianzhuang	Building	錢莊; lit. "coin farm"	Independent and private Chinese banks; first appeared during the Ming Dynasty, but greatly proliferated during the Qing. Were more likely to invest in riskier business practices compared to the larger nation-wide banking networks
Hangshang	Civilian	行商; "itinerant trader, travelling merchant"	The Chinese merchants who made up the Cohong
Gusa	Military	ᡤᡡᠰᠠ (Manchu, gūsa)	A Banner (see Banner Army)

Much of Qing uniques are based on Kangqiang golden age into Mid 19th Century decline. and very much respectful and accurate to original Qing empire.
And their unwillingness to accept Free Trade. all tradings must go through state owned (or endorsened) Cohong (โคหัง). (Actual pinyin would be Kong1 Hang2), no direct free trade permitted there until much later.
Phraya Tak (Who himself an oversea Chinese who later became a person who restore Siam). knew what's going on in China through his Cohong friends. even to the point that Qing went war against Burma, which he used it to his ends to restore Siam, with seat of power shifted to Fort Wichayen overlooking Bang Kok. eventually founded Thonburi there on the western elevated side of Menam. And with his connections with these cohongs. he even offered an investment bonds in a venture to restore Siam to these guildsmen, leading to rice imports in large quantities, in exchange of bronze and gold salvaged from ruined Ayutthaya temples.

Qing armed forces however are consisted of bannermen. Why Manchurian language name is chosen instead of Chinese? is it to tell players that their leaderships and military aren't 'Pure Chinese'?. And were they musket heavy? AFAIK they were a kind of Pike and Shotte with more muskets. And this unit still wears armor, by the time of Opium War, illustrators often draw them without studded brigandines.

And IRL Bannermen lasted only at the beginning stage of the Age III. as Tier0, Taiping Rebellion suppressions however were done by New Armies that no longer organized under Eight Banner system.
Both were 'Ever Victorious Army' (commandeered by White officers), and Provincial Army under Zeng Guofan (and later Li Hongzhang). And it turned out that Zeng - Li provincial army was more successful than Ever Victorious Army (Through the winning was due to Li Hongzhang's familiarity to the region and his policy to garner provincial public support towards Imperial Cause over Taiping Rebellion. Li Hongzhang himself was later honored as 'One of the four Columns that supported Qing Empire'.

Modern Qing Imperial Army after 1850s were no longer organized as Bannermen. Beiyang Army which was the best (And last iterations) of Qing Army was organized in the same fashion as Whitemen army. I wonder how the Tier 1 (or 2) evolutions of Gusa will looks like. Beiyang Gusa?

 

[8housesofelixir]

Not at all true.
The cornerstone of the Spanish New World trade, starting in the 16th century, was China.

That was because China's coinage was based on silver, and China did not have enough silver to power its huge internal economy.
The answer was (South) American silver, delivered by Spanish ships to Manila where they traded with Chinese merchants for Chinese goods like porcelain and silk, which then went back to Spain and Europe. In total value, this trade from America to China to Europe ,aking a profit for Spain at every stop may have been worth more than the direct movement of gold and silver from the Americas to Spain

The Ming dynasty (esp. the Ming market) was a vital component, if not one of the essential components, of the early modern world trade, and shaped globalization as we know it. Kinda disappointed that the Ming design in Civ 7 doesn't really reflect this though!