One on One debate sign up sheet

Formal is what we're going for. Standardization will follow success. You shouldn't put a straight jacket on debators when you don't even know what will work yet, or what will for that matter. Much less so when we have proven through two threads now that we can't agree on any standard for debate.
 
I think the arguing over rules by people by people who are not debating is a little strange, but whatever.

I'm going over the rules thread stuff now, and will put up the rules in the debate thread. We can tweak them a little bit on a thread by thread basis until practice determines what works best.
 
Wait. We have some rules. Give me time to type them up. I have debated before and warpus and I pit together a good list that covers all the bases. Trust me, save yourslef the effort. I'll habe them up by 9
 
Please wait dt. We spent 2 hrs on it, maybe more. We even mock debated to make sure it flowed and worked.
 
Is that acceptable Valka'Dur?
Okay.

And downtown: Why are you assuming I wouldn't ever be a debater? I grant that it's unlikely; my experience in this area has been as a judge. But you never know - if something interesting or weird comes up, I might just join in.
 
Proposed Debate Format/Rules

For One on One debates​

Format:
The debaters, having agreed on a topic, will choose three major claims to substantiate their stance on the topic. They do not have to tell each other these claims before the debate begins.

The OP will:
State the Topic
State the Contenders and their respective side of the Topic
State who will post their 3 major claims first
Will list the Format and the Rules

The Second Post will:
Contain the 3 major claims of the Alpha poster

The Third Post will:
Contain the 3 major claims of the Beta poster

After this, the Alpha poster will make a post that contains the major substantiations for their first claims. They may make as many points to back up this claim, they may not substantiate any other claims in this post.

The Beta will then pick one of the points the Alpha made to substantiate their first claim and rebut it. They may not refute any other points, though rebuttals of the claim are implicit in a rebuttal of derivative points, and are allowed. Double Rebuttals are allowed; Tangential Rebuttals are not allowed. The rules on Double and Tangential Rebuttals are global.

The Alpha may then pick one of the rebuttal points of the Beta and refute it with as many points as they wish. They may not refute points the Beta did not raise, nor may they refute a claim made by the Beta.

Example:
Alpha – I claim X, Y, Z
Beta – I claim A, B, C
Alpha – I believe X because 1,2,3
Beta - I refute X (or 1, 2 or 3, but only one of these) because &, *, %
Alpha - I refute % because !, @, #
Beta - I refute 2 and ! together Because ^.

Their will be 4 posts per debater per claim. So, the Alpha will substantiate their first claim and have 3 rebuttals (in alternating order), the Beta will make 4 rebuttals (in alternating order). After all 8 posts have been made on the Alpha's first claim, the Beta will start the cycle over with their first claim and the sequence of posts is reversed.

Debaters may refute the same claim or points if they choose within the same claim set, but must use different points to do so. This is inadvisable as it uses one of the few response posts a debater has within that claim set. Prior claims and points (either positing or rebutting) may not be revisited during subsequent claim set. For example, upon the second claim set, the Alpha may not make a rebuttal that refutes a point or a claim from the first set. The point of this structure is to force the flow of conversation to avoid obsession over tangential arguments. It also forces a debater to carefully word their arguments to withstand attack as they will not be able to defend against every rebuttal.

Rules:
Debaters may not say that they won a claim set or exchange.

Quotes are not allowed.

Sources may be referenced, (i.e. I read in Time Magazine...) but source links may not be provided. The meaning of this is that arguments are assumed to be made in good faith and are factual. These sources may be refuted, but again, this is inadvisable as it wastes a post. The Peanut Gallery is the ultimate arbiter of facts and sources, they will vote on who wins and false sources or claims are to be judged by them.

Pictures and graphs are not allowed.

The debaters and moderator will decide on the time frame for the debate and the allowed time between posts. They may decide that if a post is unanswered for a certain amount of time, the rebuttal is forfeited.

Points of order may be raised by PM with the moderator, they will not be discussed in the thread. If the moderator determines a rule has been violated, they may disqualify a post and post and explanation of the action taken. Moderators have discretion to decide violations and deal out corrective measures.

Points or claims can only be invalidated by a moderator if a rule was broken or format violated (it must be a severe and intentional format violation for a point or claim to be invalidated, rule violations will be decided case by case by the moderator). Points and claims cannot be invalidated for being false.

The Peanut Gallery will vote after the debate has ended on who has won the debate.

Debaters must post in the order provided by this format.

Spelling errors are to be judged to be inconsequential by the Peanut Gallery.

Edits are not allowed – even spelling corrections – to keep the debaters honest.



Definitions:
Alpha – First poster in the thread (does not connote seniority or superiority)
Beta – Second poster in the thread (does not connote inferiority) [these were chosen to avoid excessive use of 1st, 2nd, etc.]
Claim - A 'major' point that substantiate the poster's stance on the topic. These are primary arguments.
Claim Set – The cycle of positing, then refuting and defending (alternatively) a single claim.
Double Rebuttal – A single point that refutes multiple (2 or more) points or points and the claim entirely.
Moderator – the person who ensure the format and rules are followed
Peanut Gallery – Observers who will comment in the debate in another thread and will vote after the debate is concluded on which debater won.
Points – These are derivative or secondary arguments used to substantiate or refute a claim.
Tangential Rebuttal – a rebuttal that refutes a claim or a point entirely, but only partially refutes a second point or claim.
Topic – The issue being debated
 
Looking for a lawyer?
lionel-hutz-iphone.gif

My point is that privately negotiating rules isn't fair to everyone else. If this is going to work, the rules have to be standardized and apply to EVERYONE. Working out scheduling is different, and the rules wouldn't be compromised if the participants want to confer about what days would be best for them. But the basic rules need to be applicable to all.
Valka, basic rules. but each debate should have its own rules subset, too.
Valka D'Ur said:
Hey, I'm a fun-loving person who isn't part of fiftychat! :(
Just sign in and see if you fit. :)
 
Yes, this is just getting started.
 
On the topic of Format, I don't like the "batches of points" idea, I think it regiments the debate too much. Often, points come up later that got either dropped or abandoned previously, the full-circle-coming of which can make a long-lost point suddenly understandable. I know what you're trying to combat by suggesting them (walls of text), but I think it would best be left up to the contestants to self-regulate in that regard, for the sake of sanity and easing the judges' jobs.

Ghostwriter, nothing personal but I don't think you're up to the task. Don't feel bad, I'm not qualified either, but I'd really like to keep these threads enjoyable for me to read by excluding all those except the primo debaters on the forum. So far, we've got a few good ones in there (and frankly even though I disagree with Cheezy on things, I kind of expect him to wipe the floor with whoever he goes up against.)

:blush: Thanks for the vote of confidence V. I'm kind of worried, though, I'm going to really have to do my homework/stew over this one for a while to come up with something both good, consistent, and believable.

I could take topic #1 from a liberal perspective. But I'll only do it against a serious person.

While I would certainly love to debate you on this topic, given the spirit of this "game," I don't think it would be appropriate for your to argue from the liberal side, since that's the side you normally argue from. Since I'm doing the conservative angle on this topic, I would prefer to go up against a conservative poster arguing against me from the liberal angle, maybe someone like Mobby, Pat, or Basketcase.

Bleh none of those topics are interesting to me. Are more going to be added?

Yes, these are just trials and experiments. We are guinea pigs to see how things will/if they can work.
 
Walls of text are fine. The format doesn't preclude it, instead it forces debaters to have complete arguments instead of drive by snippets. It also cuts down on the same points being rehashed.

The larger point is to keep the debate moving forward. You don't stop a debate track irl to go back five times to rehash five things you already covered. This isn't how you do it.

Plus it helps contrast the essential points of the debaters and keeps them from continually reframing their points in light of the counterarguments.

An added bonus - this enhances the peanut galleries ability to compare and contrast and crown a winner.
 
Walls of text are fine. The format doesn't preclude it, instead it forces debaters to have complete arguments instead of drive by snippets. (…)

Plus it helps contrast the essential points of the debaters and keeps them from continually refreshing their points in light of the counterarguments.
Ftfy. </successful driveby>
 
:blush: Thanks for the vote of confidence V. I'm kind of worried, though, I'm going to really have to do my homework/stew over this one for a while to come up with something both good, consistent, and believable.

You're telling me, I friggin agreed to this thing half asleep on an impulse and I REALLY LIKE SPACE STUFF. and butters

back to sleep I go
 
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