Postmortem on Mueller

[Old Hippy]

I am waiting. The FBI could have acted inappropriately and the President be guilty of literally everything he's been accused of, they are not mutually exclusive. I mean I know you think he is innocent of everything but he could murder people on 5th avenue and you still support him as he likes to point out.

I like his humour... I mean do you seriously think he plans to murder people on 5th avenue??...
But I do think the FBI acted inappropriately... just not in the time frame you are referring too
Nunes sends letters CIA, FBI, DOJ,NSA re Mueller report forget that its a fox report... you can search the letter its on public record and have a choice of six different lines of inquiry...into the appropriateness of the FBI
just one being...

The letter did not provide further details on what the referrals will allege but the congressman previously told Fox News the referrals include two for conspiracy, as well as for “global leaks” and for lying, misleading or obstructing congressional investigators.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/nu...-several-potential-violations-in-russia-probe

 

[onejayhawk]

It does. It reminds me that all the right has these days is petty smear campaigns based on conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality. The sad part of this reality is that we are slow marching toward civil war because of this inability to grasp basic reality on the right. Insofar as the Obama administration was corrupt it was mild compared to what this president is doing and mainly mid level compared to the reality that this administration right up to the president is selling out nuclear secrets to the House of Saud, giving cover to Russian aggression, and generally profiting off the office every day.

It is difficult to describe how out of touch with facts this is. When you say not all Muslims want to exterminate Jews you were disingenuous. All Middle Eastern Muslim nations desire exactly that. They say so constantly.

This is much worse. You are told that the Obama campaign may have done something much worse than Watergate and you pass it off with, "petty smear campaigns based on conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality." These are facts

1. The AG, after reviewing all Mueller's material and other resources available to his office, concluded the FBI spied on candidate Trump.
2. The White House Council sent a letter to the AG detailing ways in which Mueller and his team failed in the performance of their duties, with the objective that it never happen again..
3. It has never been clear why the surveillance of candidate Trump began, but it was prior to ever date given to the press.
4. AG Barr has indicated that the origins of the surveillance was a serious concern.
5. This occurred during the Obama Administration and several senior Obama officials may be involved, eg Clapper, Clinton (of course), Comey, Lynch, and numerous others of lower rank.

As Barr said, spying on a political campaign is a big deal. In this case the corruption is wider spread and much more invasive than Watergate. That is not a mere political ploy. The real question is whether only Cabinet level people were involved or did it extend to the White House.

J

 

[Estebonrober]

It is difficult to describe how out of touch with facts this is. When you say not all Muslims want to exterminate Jews you were disingenuous. All Middle Eastern Muslim nations desire exactly that. They say so constantly.

This is much worse. You are told that the Obama campaign may have done something much worse than Watergate and you pass it off with, "petty smear campaigns based on conspiracy theories that have no basis in reality." These are facts

1. The AG, after reviewing all Mueller's material and other resources available to his office, concluded the FBI spied on candidate Trump.
2. The White House Council sent a letter to the AG detailing ways in which Mueller and his team failed in the performance of their duties, with the objective that it never happen again..
3. It has never been clear why the surveillance of candidate Trump began, but it was prior to ever date given to the press.
4. AG Barr has indicated that the origins of the surveillance was a serious concern.
5. This occurred during the Obama Administration and several senior Obama officials may be involved, eg Clapper, Clinton (of course), Comey, Lynch, and numerous others of lower rank.

As Barr said, spying on a political campaign is a big deal. In this case the corruption is wider spread and much more invasive than Watergate. That is not a mere political ploy. The real question is whether only Cabinet level people were involved or did it extend to the White House.

J

This is a he said she said smear campaign. There were legit reasons to be investigating Trump since the 80s and the idea that it is ridiculous to investigate is itself ridiculous. Put the shoe on the other foot for moment ( I know that this is the disconnect no right wingers can pull off but give it a shot anyways). If a democrat candidate had shown half the nonsense and cooperation with a foreign hostile power that the Trump campaign had, if a democrat candidate had a long history of financial misdeeds from tax dodging to wire fraud, if a democrat candidate had been taking foreign money his entire career and then refused to extricate himself from those incomes while he was president, do you still stand that you don't think the FBI and the rest of the US government shouldn't be investigating them? I think they should. I think this whole thing is a bloody abomination that only Republicans could ever even try to pull off in their arrogant reckless and completely dismissive towards anything good in the world, hubris.

You ideas are hypocritical to the extreme, you only cite the administration hacks (the AG and white house council have no credibility) on the defense as your sources for outrage (you do this without a sense of irony not shockingly), and your disconnect from reality is slow walking us to civil war. You posts are dumb and misguided, they are largely based on conspiracies that for over a decade have not played out as realistic, and they make everyone dumber for reading them. In short you spread stupid like a plague and hopefully the extent of your disease does not travel much further than this forum.

All of the above applies to @Old Hippy as well.

 

[Tristan_C]

Ah yes those infamously liberal institutions that are the Fbi and Cia

The role reversals are what make these times so exciting

Journalists trusting authority. Becoming a mouthpiece for the police, cheerleading for the CIA, blatantly shilling for federal prosecutors. Losing the ability to meme. The ends justify the means.

Conservatives rebuking authority, electing an outsider, hating on the FBI, the CIA, and Washington DC. Reality changes.

Spoiler :

Mueller said otherwise, and instead stated that the media's conclusions based on Barr's summary were misleading. But that's an indictment of the media's practices.

The letter-writing circus has been a sight. Barr writes a 2 page letter, asks Mueller to proofread it, Mueller declines, saying it's just fine for you to write a letter. They pointedly do not write a letter to Trump. He doesn't want a letter from them. Later, Mueller writes a little letter to Barr, saying he has problems with Barr's letter. Barr calls Mueller in confusion and Mueller says, in contrast to what he wrote in his letter, that he's actually mad about what the press said about what Barr said in his letter. Boo hoo. A senator then writes a letter to Mueller inviting him to the capitol to discuss his letter. A White House attorney writes Barr a letter, too, indicating that further correspondence with the House is likely to be by letter.

1. The AG, after reviewing all Mueller's material and other resources available to his office, concluded the FBI spied on candidate Trump.

I doubt a victim of the media will accept what this AG says even if the source material is OK.

When it comes to spying on the Trump campaign, what we have is not a conspiracy theory but lists of people tied to specific events that occurred; Azra Turk, Stefan Halper, Joseph Mifsud, Alex Downer, are examples tied to an infiltration attempt. We also know that the FBI spied on candidate Trump because in an entirely different episode, they obtained warrants from a court to do it. It's not a guess.

And far from reassuring everyone that it's alright if there was a warrant issued, it makes evident the constitutional risk of having a secret court that can rubber stamp politically-motivated activity by the FBI and CIA.

 

[Berzerker]

what is the allegation about those people?

anyone hear when Mueller will testify?

 

[Birdjaguar]

anyone hear when Mueller will testify?

Still TBD but there is talk of next week.

 

[Berzerker]

I'll be watching or recording or both

 

[Birdjaguar]

Tomorrow is the deadline for McGann to turn over a ton of documents to the House in prep for his appearance on the 21st.

 

[onejayhawk]

This is a he said she said smear campaign. There were legit reasons to be investigating Trump since the 80s and the idea that it is ridiculous to investigate is itself ridiculous. Put the shoe on the other foot for moment ( I know that this is the disconnect no right wingers can pull off but give it a shot anyways). If a democrat candidate had shown half the nonsense and cooperation with a foreign hostile power that the Trump campaign had, if a democrat candidate had a long history of financial misdeeds from tax dodging to wire fraud, if a democrat candidate had been taking foreign money his entire career and then refused to extricate himself from those incomes while he was president, do you still stand that you don't think the FBI and the rest of the US government shouldn't be investigating them? I think they should. I think this whole thing is a bloody abomination that only Republicans could ever even try to pull off in their arrogant reckless and completely dismissive towards anything good in the world, hubris.

You ideas are hypocritical to the extreme, you only cite the administration hacks (the AG and white house council have no credibility) on the defense as your sources for outrage (you do this without a sense of irony not shockingly), and your disconnect from reality is slow walking us to civil war. You posts are dumb and misguided, they are largely based on conspiracies that for over a decade have not played out as realistic, and they make everyone dumber for reading them. In short you spread stupid like a plague and hopefully the extent of your disease does not travel much further than this forum.

All of the above applies to @Old Hippy as well.

Hardly he said/she said. There is documentary evidence. You say the Attorney General and the White House Council have no credibility then accuse someone else of hypocrisy. That may be a new record low.

There is an old saying, "Even paranoids have enemies." Trump may have been paranoid when he claimed they were spying on him but he was right. That sort of perverting law enforcement is more often found in totalitarian states. The whole country needs and deserves to see the bottom of this.

J

 

[metalhead]

I'm just relieved to see that the Rule of Law enthusiasts who think you can't have Rule of Law without a border wall, also see nothing wrong with a president committing felony obstruction multiple times and desire no legal consequence for this. That's totally consistent and understandable.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Trump may have been paranoid when he claimed they were spying on him

FBI spied

Investigated. FBI doesn't have spies.

One sees verbal traces of the right-wing propaganda machine.

 

[Berzerker]

its right there in the name, FBInvestigation

 

[El_Machinae]

Trump has since stated in an interview that he made his original Claim about being spied upon without any actual information. He said it was a hunch.

He stated a hunch as if it was a fact, in order to damage the credibility of the POTUS

 

[Berzerker]

I think he also lied to the Canadian PM about trade imbalances and admitted he just made up the stats back when he was promoting his tariffs

if Trump deserves to be impeached its for his tariff war

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm just relieved to see that the Rule of Law enthusiasts who think you can't have Rule of Law without a border wall, also see nothing wrong with a president committing felony obstruction multiple times and desire no legal consequence for this. That's totally consistent and understandable.

Ah..metalhead, you have forgotten that immigrants are not white and Trump is. And to make America great again, Republicans have to be in charge.

Now in contrast to that we know Trumpy loves Kimmy who is not white and in the photos of Trump and tiger woods floating around today, it certainly looks like Trumpy wants to give him a little kissy. A gay Trump is a bit unsettling.

 

[Lexicus]

A gay Trump is a bit unsettling.

I see you're unfamiliar with the wide world of Trump/Pence slash fiction

 

[Birdjaguar]

I see you're unfamiliar with the wide world of Trump/Pence slash fiction

Never even heard of it and I don't want to imagine it. What would Mrs. Pence say?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Never even heard of it and I don't want to imagine it. What would Mrs. Pence say?

"You can execute women who get abortions until the cow comes home but so help me if you have dinner with any of them..."

 

[Ajidica]

A gay Trump is a bit unsettling.

<savage>He already uses more bronzer than a drag queen</savage>
Anyhow, we know what a gay Trump would sound like:

 

[onejayhawk]

Investigated. FBI doesn't have spies.

One sees verbal traces of the right-wing propaganda machine.

Correction. The FBI shouldn't have spies. That is why Barr's choice of words is so telling. He knows exactly what he he implied, yet he chose to say it anyway.

One sees a large, noisy Democratic spin machine in operation.

Trump has since stated in an interview that he made his original Claim about being spied upon without any actual information. He said it was a hunch. He stated a hunch as if it was a fact, in order to damage the credibility of the POTUS

Is that your hunch?

J