Realpolitik II - Dark Storm Rising

[Aysee]

The government cannot nationalize the guild because it would become the enforcement agency of the government. This would be like "brown shirts" running around killing at the behest of the governing. The opposition and independents would not stand for such use, and ultimately I believe you have a revolution on your hands.

Live I've said before, the only foreign threats and domestic terrorists (e.g., Copperheads from last game, an ilduce-level situation) well be targeted. The opposition will not be touched. The guild will not turn into a secret police-like organization.
The point is, as it exists now, the Guild is merely a mercenary organization that inspires lawlessness and murder. We have already seen the end result of this, in the growing conflict between Arya and Sonereal. It will only grow worse unless the government intevenes--which is what I am trying to do here.
Under nationalization, the AG becomes a part of the government--a covert ops group, if you will. They’ll be able to infiltrate places the military can’t get into and accomplish missions the government couldn’t on its own. They would do a lot more good than they do now, in short.
And to answer Dem Taqat’s demands: The Assassins Guild is already in a different postion from the other parties. They are the only party whose sole purpose is killing. I intend to take that, and change it into something good for the country.

 

[arya126]

Aysee the problem is you cannot guarantee that future governemnets with direct control over the AG wont use it to attack the opposition. Plus, you dont need to nationalize the guild to do the stuff you propose becaue: Thats stuff thats in the Guilds description basicly. They already have said they would be willing to accept contracts on foreign targets.

 

[Aysee]

Yes, but during elections, they'll still accept contracts on politicians. That's what I'm trying to avoid here--a way for people to off their enemies with no fear of reprisal.

 

[arya126]

That destroys the basic nature of the guild. Thats the whole point. Just back off. Accept the Guild as it is. If you dont want to be killed, buy shielded status. Its there for a reason.

In return for payment, I will now be accepting requests to reveal client information from this previous election.

 

[SouthernKing]

People of America:

The Assassin's Guild crisis is threatening the very foundation of this great nation. With people debating over whether the Guild is legal or not, I propose this solution:

The Assassin's Guild remains neutral. It cannot join a coalition at any time for any reason.

There is always a 50-50 chance that the Guild releases the contract of a given assassination attempt no matter whether it succeeds or fails, determined by a coin flip.

If the contract is released and the assassination fails, nothing happens in-game, but PCs will not trust you as much.

If the contract is released and the assassination succeeds, you lose your position (if you have one), NPCs will be far less likely to vote for your party for the next election (whatever election it is), and if you are on the ruling coalition the OSR goes up.

The Guild cannot kill without a contract, unless it is someone who has physically attacked the Guild or a Guild member.

I hope you will consider this compromise.

 

[arya126]

This basicly compromises client confidentiality (otherwise who would lose a position or be thought of less of?...) which is the whole point of the Guild.

How about we leave the guild alone? I may not be a member anymore, but I have no problem with the mechanics.

 

[SouthernKing]

This basicly compromises client confidentiality (otherwise who would lose a position or be thought of less of?...) which is the whole point of the Guild.

How about we leave the guild alone? I may not be a member anymore, but I have no problem with the mechanics.

I would love to leave the guild alone, but client confidentiality is what most of the Anti-Assassins are complaining about. Limiting confidentiality seems to be the only solution other than nationalization or disbanding the Guild.

 

[Sonereal]

Assassinations are a crime. Anyone caught performing an assassination from here on out should be jailed. What's so hard to understand? Anyone who supports the Assassins supports state-sponsored, or party-sponsored murder.

I propose a simple system. Anyone caught performing an assassination should be jailed for one full term. If the Assassin can tell the government who sponsored them, and bring evidence, then the assassin is only jailed for a midterm and the people who paid for the assassination are jailed for the full term.

 

[Aysee]

Yes, the basic nature of the guild is to provide support for a questionable act. That's what I'm trying to eliminate. With nationalization they become an asset to the nation instead of a catalyst for chaos, which is what they are now.

 

[Tambien]

With Son

 

[Mosher]

I'm going to have to stand by Aysee on this matter. Nationalization is the best approach to the guild, and if we don't, they'll just be a rogue agency with no limits.

 

[Tambien]

Nationalization is not the answer, outlawing the Guild IS.

 

[Aysee]

@Mosher: Thanks for the support. People have been calling on the Government to do something, and I figure that this is about one of the best things the government can do at the time.


EDIT: Outlawing is a bit extreme. I would much rather that we still have assassins (albeit under the government's control), but if all else fails, yes, abolition is an option.

 

[arya126]

Actually people havent been calling for the government to do something, they have been calling for something in particular: A PLAN! NOW STOP USING THE GUILD AS AN EXCUSE TO TAKE CONTROL OVER A SOVIERGN PARTY AND BUSINESS, AND TRY AND ADRESS GETTING PAST THIS TURNSET! And why am I doing this yelling? Where the heck is the opposition leader at?

 

[Aysee]

Last login time: 4:05 PM

Stop yelling, Arya. It's only been five hours since DT's logged on.

As for the plan, to the best of my knowledge, the VP has agreed to take charge on that.

 

[arya126]

I will yell all I want. I dont care about the last time he logged on. I care about his activity level in opposing the government and harrassing you about the plan.

Then lets get it moving. I havent seen anything in the social group about a plan being started...

 

[Aysee]

It's rather telling when you think the sole purpose of the opposition is to harass the government...

 

[Sonereal]

I'm not saying nationalize the guild. I'm not saying anything but make the act of assassination and illegal one. The Guild can still exist as a POLITICAL PARTY and be allowed to operate as a POLITICAL PARTY.

 

[Ravus_Sol]

Sonereal's Stance

I'm not saying nationalize the guild. I'm not saying anything but make the act of assassination and illegal one. The Guild can still exist as a POLITICAL PARTY and be allowed to operate as a POLITICAL PARTY.

You do realise that by deeming assassinations illegal but allowing the guild to exist you would be in effect placing a underworld illegal REGULATION on the guild.

I.E the guild could still take jobs but they would be illegal and once performed the assassin would be jailed, thus limiting the number of assassinations to the number of guild members minus those who wish to remain un-jailed to take positions...

The guild could still operate it would just become a black market commodity instead and mostly viewed in a more negative light by the politicians.


Vice-President SouthernKings Stance

People of America:

The Assassin's Guild crisis is threatening the very foundation of this great nation. With people debating over whether the Guild is legal or not, I propose this solution:

The Assassin's Guild remains neutral. It cannot join a coalition at any time for any reason.

There is always a 50-50 chance that the Guild releases the contract of a given assassination attempt no matter whether it succeeds or fails, determined by a coin flip.

If the contract is released and the assassination fails, nothing happens in-game, but PCs will not trust you as much.

If the contract is released and the assassination succeeds, you lose your position (if you have one), NPCs will be far less likely to vote for your party for the next election (whatever election it is), and if you are on the ruling coalition the OSR goes up.

The Guild cannot kill without a contract, unless it is someone who has physically attacked the Guild or a Guild member.

I hope you will consider this compromise

I don't see why the guild would exist if this happened. If the Guild has to remain neutral what would be the point of it asking for votes in payment?

A better idea If the truth is a big deal, is you could all pass a statue of limitations, That the guild has to reveal all the buyers once two-three elections have passed. That way political fall out will be minimized for the buyers and the victims will still know who cause them old wounds.

I don't actually support this but i'm clarifying things.


Administration Inaction
This is why in times of controversy the government needs a strong hand. Any decision is better then no decision at this point.

What exactly is the problem with the plan? It's the first turnset, we have two cities and hardly anything else. 30 turns is all you have to plan for. You allready gave a brief overview of what you wanted, polish that up and send it to LH in PM to advance the game. Unless you are trying to optimize a city for rushing a wonder i really don't understand what the hold up could be. At this point a plan can be thought and typed up in 10 minutes... is there arguing in the government over how to proceed?

If Sparthage isn't around Southern King can just seize power to send it off. That is what the Vice Presidential position is there for. Yes he becomes Governer of Washington in the mid-terms but for now his main power is in taking command when things go wonky.


Opposition Inaction
Dem Taqat, The Guild is playing a mainly neutral part inbetween the Administration and opposition at the moment but perhaps a time limit should be issued before we call for a vote of no confidence? It's allready been over a week since they got elected.

Perhaps give them another week at most? A time limit could help them get their act together.

-

Guildmaster Ravus

 

[aoudis]

Why do people want to get rid of assassinations all of a sudden? The attack on Son was not an assassination, it was a full blown assault! Does everyone realize this? And Arya said it was not the AG that attack, even if it was, it was an assault, not an assassination. So those of you who think making the act of assassinations illegal will prevent that kind of thing, it will not. Because it was NOT AN ASSASSINATION, IT WAS A BLACK AND WHITE, SIMPLY OBVIOUS, IN YOUR FACE ASSAULT!