Red Diamond Threads

Second, is :) the RD substitute for :rolleyes: and :pat:? It appears it is being used in this very RD thread in an unnecessary way. I would certainly read an unnecesary smilie as somewhat trollish by RD standards when you have the entire English language to maturely make your point. I'm not meaning to call those posters out, but merely trying to get some clarification. Anytime I see :), I just look at it as a "bless your heart" way of throwing out a :rolleyes: or :pat: or other more trollish smilie equivalent.
Since I use that occasionally I'd like to stress that I use it when I'm very pleased with the argument or comment I just made. There is a air of smiling in the face of oncoming rebuttal since I feel that argument can take it.

If it irritates people, I'll cut it out in RD threads.
 
Since I use that occasionally I'd like to stress that I use it when I'm very pleased with the argument or comment I just made. There is a air of smiling in the face of oncoming rebuttal since I feel that argument can take it.
I thought the :smug: smiley was for that.
 
I thought the :smug: smiley was for that.
I fear to be smug. Before you know it someone torpedoes my content little argument form an angle I haven't yet considered. Wouldn't be the first time. The fact I feel it can take abuse doesn't mean I'm sure enough to be smug.

It's an odd topsy turvy forum where smugness is deemed less offensive than being content :p
 
birdjaguar said:
Point 2 is the one raised by Mark Defiant: the forum has grown up in ten years and how should we address those changes in regards to how we moderate the forum. I've watched many of you go from HS to college and on to work or grad school and i know that many of you are not the same people you were 5 or 8 years ago. this is not a simple fix though. How do we let the forums grow up?

No no no, hold on a second. You and many others many have grown older on the forum, but the vast majority are the same mid-teens they usually are. There are so many new people joining all the time. This is a gaming site. OFF-TOPIC is just a subsection of that - the hint is in the name. This is an area for light relief from the rest of the forum which is far more focused on what they found CFC for in the first place. If you want a high brow discussion, join a debating team or a seminar, just take it somewhere else. Don't feel the need to turn off-topic into one. That was never the reason the majority joined CFC. It seems like OT is changing just for a few loud voices when you have so many people that are perfectly happy with it as it is.
CFC is not a sinking ship, quite evidently, and it is not hemorrhaging members, so why the need for change? We are doing the classic thing of all large organizations that desperately innovate and change because they FEEL they should.
 
I fear to be smug. Before you know it someone torpedoes my content little argument form an angle I haven't yet considered. Wouldn't be the first time. The fact I feel it can take abuse doesn't mean I'm sure enough to be smug.

It's an odd topsy turvy forum where smugness is deemed less offensive than being content :p
Yes, but we're not supposed to be pleased. It fosters elitism.
 
This is an area for light relief from the rest of the forum which is far more focused on what they found CFC for in the first place. If you want a high brow discussion, join a debating team or a seminar, just take it somewhere else. Don't feel the need to turn off-topic into one.
Actually, our hope is that if this works out there will be more room for light hearted stuff instead of less. Furthermore, I don't agree with you that high brow discussion should have no place in OT. CFC OT has a rather proud history of having highly intelligent and civil political discussions, and I think it's worth preserving that. We shouldn't let a few people who are unwilling or unable to debate in a civil manner destroy this for the rest.

That was never the reason the majority joined CFC. It seems like OT is changing just for a few loud voices when you have so many people that are perfectly happy with it as it is.
CFC is not a sinking ship, quite evidently, and it is not hemorrhaging members, so why the need for change? We are doing the classic thing of all large organizations that desperately innovate and change because they FEEL they should.
CFC is indeed not a sinking ship, but are you sure that the majority is 'perfectly happy' with OT the way it is? I somehow get different signals. Besides, this isn't a huge change, just a tweak really. It's not like we're turning the insides of OT out. :)
 
Actually, our hope is that if this works out there will be more room for light hearted stuff instead of less. Furthermore, I don't agree with you that high brow discussion should have no place in OT. CFC OT has a rather proud history of having highly intelligent and civil political discussions, and I think it's worth preserving that. We shouldn't let a few people who are unwilling or unable to debate in a civil manner destroy this for the rest.

I feel with the red diamond I'm more inhibited and less likely to post ANYTHING on OT, diamond or otherwise, for fear of 'getting it wrong'. It's a label I dislike having, it's too regulated and OT, as I said before, should be relaxed. Also, if you're going to have labels for serious threads, why not expand it to less serious ones too? It makes little sense to me unless the whole thing is entirely changed (which I am not advocating in any way btw). To be quite honest, having the tweaks mean I am far more conscious of whether what I'm posting is 'intellectual' enough or whether I'm doing it right. The sub-forums are enough to confuse me and make me question whether what I've done is right and I hate that there's another level of that. Call me lazy, naive whatever but frankly I'm sure I'm not alone in that. If that's your intention, to try and cut out relaxed and perhaps jesting posting then fair enough, that'll probably work, but from what you're saying I get the impression you want more of the relaxed discussion, right?
 
2.) A generational fracture into "teenagers" and "post-teenagers" and "middle-aged." This would not be a problem, except that the second group chafes under the rules which govern the first well (the third being something of a wild card).

I can see why it might look this way to you, since you've moved from one group to another during your tenure here, and since there are certainly teenaged problem posters. I think it's completely wrong. The only thing those groups have in common is their chronological age. We have some sensible posters that are 15 and some that are 35, and some awful ideologues and trolls that are 15 and some that are 35. No age group has a monopoly on anything. Maybe the teenagers make for a larger percentage of problem posters, I can't say since I don't know how old everyone is, but it's absolutely not fair to damn them all, or to excuse all, or most, of the "adults".

This means, first and foremost, acting as human shields and interjecting lots of so-incredibly-reasonable content into the thread so that people have an opportunity to post about the topic without freaking out.

That's because mods usually find themselves coming to CFC only to do moderating (after a while), with little time or energy left to do regular posting. Or to simply interact with posters. Because everything we post is held to a higher standard and might be construed as representing the site, in the end we ended up not saying anything much anymore so as not to get caught up in these. :p

Once you start moderating (esp OT!), you'll find that you have little time, or energy left to do normal posting. Particularly when you must ensure that your posts must now be above par, since you're now a mod. It takes a lot of effort... most of us will rather concentrate on moderating, rather than try to do both at once...

The "leading by example" that Gogf mentioned is an excellent point.

But you don't need to be the ones posting the good posts in order to lead by example. There are a lot of good posters who have sadly decided to become mods and stop posting. But they are still capable of recognising good quality posts when they see them.

(Re: blue: I don't consider plain text posts by mods to be mod-hatted. Mod hats bold and color text. Sure, mods should set an example of lawfulness, but it's not as though El Mac's (awesome) science commentary is somehow representative of the mod borg.)

Well, Mise beat me to it. Gogf's point is great, and some mods would be perfect for such a thing, except that becoming a mod kills exceptional posters. This sapping of talent is without a doubt one of the causes of OT's arthritis.

Supposing mods haven't got the time or will to compose proper quality posts, they can still help steer discussion without petty vandalism (edit: or "elitism"). Participate in the discussion, even if it's just mildly prodding questions. Ask for clarification and expansion of good ideas. Engage the best posting. Carrot. Call out crap posts conversationally - without necessarily wearing the mod hat and without needing to debate infraction - so the rest of us (that aren't allowed to do it bluntly) can see it disarmed and move on. Point out the quicksand before anyone falls in. This could work exceptionally well in the RD zone, where mods are already expected to be more active.

I think the infraction system is an improvement. It allows for a clearer recording system, and bans are more systematic.

Back in my day, I do warnings, and then random bans (1 week for typical, 10 days to 2 weeks or more for more persistent ones), depending on how irritable I find a problem post is and how many warnings I can search or simply recall. I seriously doubt people will like that kind of random system now. :p

I fully support arbitrary bans. It's too easy to game the infraction system. It's no secret that some of these fence-dancers are #fiftychat regulars. Too many times to count, I've seen posters behave just as long as it takes for their points to expire. "I want to troll [poster] but I have to wait until tomorrow afternoon when I'll be back down to 4 points." You can get away with damn near anything if you pace yourself. The system is probably an improvement in dealing with the vast majority of posters, but it's completely broken by some of the problem posters - the ones that most need to be restrained.

Unfortunately, riding the system isn't the province of problem posters alone. Some of the best posters on OT do it too. That, in my opinion, should be let slide, and arbitrary bans should be restricted to posters that don't contribute within their rule-skirting. We all know who belongs to which group.
 
I agree with Boundless on this one.
 
Lucy said:
Supposing mods haven't got the time or will to compose proper quality posts, they can still help steer discussion without petty vandalism. Participate in the discussion, even if it's just mildly prodding questions. Ask for clarification and expansion of good ideas. Engage the best posting. Carrot. Call out crap posts conversationally - without necessarily wearing the mod hat and without needing to debate infraction - so the rest of us (that aren't allowed to do it bluntly) can see it disarmed and move on. Point out the quicksand before anyone falls in. This could work exceptionally well in the RD zone, where mods are already expected to be more active.
I like this.
 
This all sounds like mediating discussions rather than moderating them.

What is a "good quality post"?
 
Well, they needn't direct the entire discussion, but aren't mods posters anymore? You take some of our best posters and they stop posting and then wonder why quality is deteriorating.

We all know quality when we see it. :dunno:
 
Yeah, you've taken down Moss, and Camikaze, and Atticus…
 
Well, they needn't direct the entire discussion, but aren't mods posters anymore? You take some of our best posters and they stop posting and then wonder why quality is deteriorating.

We all know quality when we see it. :dunno:

Fire all the good mods!! :D
 
Yeah, you've taken down Moss, and Camikaze, and Atticus…
To be honest, I don't see Moss frequenting OT. Even before he was made a mod :confused:.
 
This "no vBulletin addons" thing is just a crutch... LOADS of websites have addons and it's not a problem.
Add ons and hacks were a major reason for the technical collapses at Apolyton, and for the schism that created We Play Civ site. Locutus and Solver left and started the new site with a clea slate because they were sick of the technical instability at Apolyton, and because of insufficient hope it could be salvaged. Although, as it turned out, Apolyton was able to start over with cleaner software and even covert much of their old data base to where it could at least be accessed with it.
 
Granted, some add-ons conflict with others. I discovered that the last time I added some stuff to my Firefox browser. I had to uninstall some of it because it did nasty things to my computer's innards (very nasty electronic tummy-ache). But I just took a peek at the forum that's been using this sort of stuff for over FIVE YEARS. It appears to be functioning just fine. Yes, it's vBulletin.
 
I'm not sure how it will work out, but I like how the mods are handling the current Israeli thread. We have enough leeway to argue about other stuff, but the mods can still bring it back to topic without resorting to the ban-hammer.
 
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