Renegade unit: Attacks building civilization

[ocedius]

I posted something like this a while back. Worker units with hidden nationality, 0 defense, 1 attack, and defensive bombardment cannot be captured, but may occupy the same square as the rival. Has anyone witnessed something along these lines?

It would make for a great addition. Preplaced terrain-colored barbarian units that can't essentially be destroyed except late in the game and even then by being bombarded with lethal-bombardment artillery.

Any comments?

 

[Supa]

I've never heard of that o_O

Could be interesting if it doesn't lead to a game crash.

 

[Goldflash]

I don 't think thats possible, Ocedious

 

[ocedius]

Actually, I am playing a mod right now and thats exactly what going on. The Suspicious forest units are chinese with the same attributes I mentioned. My roman warrior is standing on the same tile as them. I have very successfully used this in my mods by creating a unit called resistor. He has these attributes: modern worker .flcs, available with nationalism, attack 4, defense 0, 4/0/1 Bombard and hidden nationality.

This makes capturing cities a pain-in-the-ass, and mine or the AIs.

The gifs should explain what's going on.

 

[ocedius]

continued with last image:

The unit appears forest unit is invisible because I have used blank.flc for this. Actually, I have been using this type of unit for the Ai for some time. It appears invisible and you'll step on to the tile if you don't observe the small white hyphen /bar for the units.

They bombard defensively, and lethal if you want it. Makes a nifty addition.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Does this only work with these very specific parameters?

 

[ocedius]

Yes, but the problem is the type of unit you create can sometimes backfire on you. Resistors are simple. Cost 1 population, 0 movement, ZOC, defensive bombard, basically footunits that can't leave the city.

But these ones I am working on now are meant as dangerous enviornment units. They attack sometimes if you give them a bombard range of 1, but are impossible to kill since the game engine doesn't attack them. Bombards' the only way to deal with these and occassionally that too fails.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

So what, if anything, do these units do if they're immobile in a city? How does it damage the enemy?

A few other questions:

Can you increase the Attack strength to above 1?
Can this unit still die when attacking?
Does invisible nationality have to be active?

 

[ocedius]

So what, if anything, do these units do if they're immobile in a city? How does it damage the enemy?

With ZOC, they attack units in a city's proximity. I have seen the AI build this and use it in my mods.

Can you increase the Attack strength to above 1?

Yes. Resistors are just one example. I am still guaging the AIs use of these. Another unit I have observed is the Khmer warrior (using the jomon warrior .flcs) It has an attack of 1 and a defensive bombardment. And it works very very well. Another is the Indian Thuggi/spy/robber type unit. It attacks and occupies the same square.

Can this unit still die when attacking?

I have yet to see this happen. However there is atleast an exception to this rule. If a unit is inside the city and you attack the city and the city falls, the units disappear. I posted this as a possible bug sometime ago, but got wrapped at the university and lost track of the thread.

Does invisible nationality have to be active?

Yes. If not, the unit is attacked like anyother unit and is killed because they keep attacking/defending till one of the rival dies out. Usually this is the resistor.

 

[ocedius]

Another odd thing about these is if you have units with these attributes outside a city and an enemy is also on the same tile. For say 3 chinese resistors on a hill with a roman spearman. If a chinese archer approaches the hill tile, the resistors actually bombard the archer and then the spearman picks him off. The units treat the parent civilization as if it were the enemy. When the roman spearman moves away, they treat the parent civilization as a friend again

 

[Wolfwood]

This is the weirdest thing I've heard of. Obviously a bug, but if it does not lead to game crashes, it could be handy in fantasy mods (lethal forests, swamps etc., perhaps...).

 

[ocedius]

I am sure its a bug. The best part is units are not destroyed if you disable their ability to fortify. Fortified units however are destroyed if they are unable to kill the attacking rival units.

 

[ocedius]

So has anyone else tried this? What happened? Interesting results? Any comments?

It would be a shame to lose this thread if no one tried these settings out. This type of unit offers a lot of potential.

 

[Willem]

I don 't think thats possible, Ocedious

Yes it is. A 0 unit with Hidden Nationality can't be destroyed. In fact, it can share a space with another civ's units. The problem with this is that having that unit in another civs territority will draw quite a number of that civ's units to that location to try and destroy it. That allows the human player to draw off a sizable portion of an enemies forces to wherever he/she wants. In short, it's an unfair exploit that I don't think should be used.

 

[ocedius]

Yes it is. A 0 unit with Hidden Nationality can't be destroyed. In fact, it can share a space with another civ's units. The problem with this is that having that unit in another civs territority will draw quite a number of that civ's units to that location to try and destroy it. That allows the human player to draw off a sizable portion of an enemies forces to wherever he/she wants. In short, it's an unfair exploit that I don't think should be used.

I have tried this and it doesn't draw any unwarranted attention because it has no defense. I mean 0 defense. It will not attract any units, becuase the AI doesn't consider it as much a threat as a defense stat unit.

In addition the AI will build these (if you'll check the post about resistors.) Its an exploit that the AI uses. It has used it against me several times. Crazy, but true.

 

[Mr. Do]

That is interesting... and even if it did draw off AI, hopefully at the very least you could make it invisible (Does the bastid AI know where invisible units are to attack?) and use it on landmark terrain.

 

[ocedius]

I am suspicious about AIs and its knowledge of terrian/units. I have seen romans build a road to a mountain next to a city in BA, only to have the mountain tuen up iron whne they discover IA. Not to mention irrigation without a river in the Ancient era.

Invisible is a good idea, but fit for hostile/defensive terrain. This allows the AI to see units, but it can't do any thing about it. Other than bombard the hell out of them .. or use a cruise missile

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Does this work for water units too? Because subs may at long last be useful!

 

[ocedius]

I have only used this for land; I see no reason for it not to. WWI U-boats and stealth bombers are good candidates for Water/Air renegade/resistors. I'll try it and give ya a more accurate response.

 

[ocedius]

Does this work for water units too? Because subs may at long last be useful!

Checked it out this morning. Yes it does. A sub that is hidden nat. Defensive bombardment/ 0 defense, and unfortified, may share the same square. Fortified, it is destroyed. Smae as the land untis.

The Cruiser in Egyptian, the Sub is Roman