Again with the false equivalence, here is a post with real fascist stuff, simply compare with the other article.



Yevheny’s harsh treatment is just one example of a colonialist repression Russia is enforcing across the Ukrainian territory it controls, a system comprising a gulag of more than 100 prisons, detention facilities, informal camps and basements that is reminiscent of the worst Soviet excesses.

Research by a team of reporters involving dozens of interviews with former detainees, human rights organizations and Ukrainian officials from the Office of the General Prosecutor, the intelligence service and ombudsmen, reveals a highly institutionalized, bureaucratic and frequently brutal system of repression run by Moscow to pacify an area of 40,000 square miles in Ukraine, roughly the size of Ohio.

The abuses almost always occur unseen and unheard by the outside world, as Russia-controlled areas are largely inaccessible to independent journalists and human rights investigators. But human rights organizations and Ukrainian prosecutors and government officials have managed to monitor the situation closely, drawing on accounts from civilians who are either still living there or who have found a way to leave.

The ultimate aim of Moscow’s efforts, rights advocates said, is to extinguish Ukrainian identity through such tactics as propaganda, re-education, torture, forced Russian citizenship and sending children to live in Russia.

[...]

Ukrainians who have escaped Russian occupation said it was like living in a cage, where travel is restricted and many live in fear of arbitrary violence or detention. Information is controlled and inhabitants are subjected to relentless propaganda in the media, in schools and in the workplace.

[...]

At the time of the invasion, Yevheny, who, like others in this article, asked that only his first name be published for security reasons, was living by the sea in southern Ukraine. At first, he said in an interview earlier this year, Russian troops did not even enter his small coastal town.

But 10 months later, in December 2022, eight masked, uniformed men came looking for him. In the subsequent interrogation, he said, he was punched, beaten with a crowbar and subjected to water boarding and near suffocation with a plastic bag.

For six weeks after that beating he could not lie down, and he could only sleep sitting up in a chair. “My legs, my buttocks, everything from the waist down was black,” he said. “All my limbs, all the muscles, were not working. The skin on my arms was all cracked.”
It took him eight months to recover with the help of a local doctor, who told him he was not the only person to have been tortured in that basement, Yevheny said.
Rights organizations and Ukrainian officials working in the southern regions said they had collected many similar accounts. Yurii Sobolevsky, first deputy chairman of the Kherson Regional Council, said he personally knew of dozens of cases of enforced disappearances, detentions and beatings in the occupied part of his region.

[...]

Ukrainian prosecutors and a United Nations special rapporteur have documented hundreds of abuses occurring under Russian occupation from enforced disappearances, summary executions of civilians, unlawful detention, torture and sexual violence.

The first cases of torture of Ukrainians in detention emerged 10 years ago, when Moscow-backed separatists seized power in parts of the eastern provinces of Donetsk and Luhansk. Alice Jill Edwards, the U.N. special rapporteur on torture, said last year that torture and sexual assault by Russian soldiers of Ukrainian civilians and soldiers had reached a level of a systematic, state-endorsed policy.
Oleksandra Matviichuk, head of the Kyiv-based Center for Civil Liberties, which has documented human rights abuses since 2014 and was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 2022, said, “There is a clear goal to this violence, this cruelty,” noting that it was “a tactic of war, to keep the territorial occupation under their control.”

[...]

Oleksii, 43, a Ukrainian welder, was held in three separate places of detention in Donetsk in 2015. After a week of brutal beatings by different groups he was left for dead outside the city.
He told his story after crossing the border into Ukraine in April with his wife, Olena, 39, their five children and their dog, Czar.
Twice displaced in the last decade, they first fled occupied Donetsk in 2015. Oleksii sent the family ahead to live in a Ukraine-controlled region, but was detained by the local police before he could follow them.
He was held for a week, he said, repeatedly beaten into unconsciousness. But he remembers his last interrogator, a Russian with a red beard, who removed the hood covering from Oleksii’s head and offered him a last wish. Oleksii asked for a call to his relatives and a cigarette. “He gave me a cigarette but no call,” Oleksii said.

“Then he said, ‘This is it.’ He broke my fingers, broke my nose. Only two ribs were not broken,” Oleksii added.
When he regained consciousness, Oleksii found himself in the half light of dawn or dusk, he could not tell which, in a sprawling field surrounded by dead and decaying bodies. “There were dozens of them,” he said. “They had been there for a long time.”

Unable to walk, he began to crawl out of the dumping ground and surprised a woman collecting bottles in a wheelbarrow. She screamed and ran off but returned the next day with her husband and daughter. They took him to their home in the wheelbarrow and nursed him back to health. A week later, volunteers helped him escape to Ukrainian-held territory.
Part 1. Ugledar resident Olga Ivanovna Byshenko-Epifanova:

"The Ukrainian military told us, they intimidated the old people: "Dig your own graves, the Russians will kill you all when they come." These threats were heard constantly. Of course, after such words, it is impossible to sleep peacefully. We lived in constant fear.

The Ukrainian military stole, drank. They intimidated us by saying that if they left, they would destroy everything. They threatened the locals with taking over their homes, saying: "These houses are now our dachas." We understood that they hated us.

We lived under terrible psychological pressure, and many are still afraid to talk about it. The Ukrainian Armed Forces left us no choice - if you do not obey them, your loved ones will suffer."
"Ukrainian soldiers were looting and robbing city residents. I saw it with my own eyes.

People left their things at home when they left and planned to return. Our house was also locked. Armed Ukrainian soldiers came and wanted to break down the doors. They forced us to open them. They came in with empty bags and came out with full ones. Everything happened openly and brazenly
, in broad daylight, in front of many neighbors.

In July 2022, Ukrainian soldiers robbed houses and took them away in KamAZ trucks. Afterwards, people found their things in the markets.

We were afraid of the Ukrainian soldiers, afraid to say anything to them. They were rarely sober, often had drunken shootouts. At that time, we locked ourselves in the basement."
Residents of Ugledar Marina Vladimirovna and Sergey Anatolyevich Goloborodko: "A Ukrainian soldier stabbed a miner with a knife, the artery was damaged. He bled to death in just a few minutes. Everything was hushed up, there were no consequences for the soldier. The Ukrainian military shelled the city, creating panic so that people would leave. This began even before the Russian troops arrived, at the end of February 2022. On the 24th, for the first time, something big flew here, to the hospital area. Two people died. We lived in the basement of the school. Initially, there were 680 of us. Some left, some died. "White Angels" came and threatened to forcibly take away children if the parents did not leave for Ukraine. The SBU was hunting for the men. They checked phones, documents, took those who they could find. We did not have time to hide two men, and they were taken to serve in the Ukrainian troops. I was forced to leave, accused of separatism for staying in Ugledar."
It has become more difficult to communicate with those who left for Ukraine. Those with whom there is a connection say that you can't buy bread if you ask for it in Russian. It is dangerous to speak Russian on the phone in the street. My friend and I used to speak Russian, but now she will only speak Ukrainian - if someone hears her speaking Russian, she will get into trouble. In Ugledar, many of the Ukrainian soldiers were intoxicated with alcohol or drugs - twitchy, dilated pupils, inadequate behavior. This was almost constant. At night, they shot in the air or at the windows - for fun. We tried to hide, not to be seen. Two Ukrainian soldiers searched a house next to the school. We were told that they were checking the positions. The next day, five came with weapons and were going to blow up the door. One of them were on drugs - his pupils were dilated. Half were drunk. They started threatening us, pointing machine guns at us, shouting: "We will shoot you", checked our passports, searched the basement. We thought they would shoot us."
Resident of the village of Korovyakovka Viktor Vasilievich (Kursk region):

"Ukrainian soldiers fired at us. Mortar shelling every day. Korovyakovka is only three kilometers from the border, and many houses came under fire. My parents' house was damaged - the blast wave blew out the windows. The neighboring house burned down completely.

Ukraine fired at civilians. There were no soldiers in the village at the time. A man from a neighboring street came under fire on his way to the store and died on the spot from wounds to the abdominal cavity."
 
Unless you believe all Russians are by definition suspected spies (which I wouldn't be surprised at this point tbh), there were nothing special about the circumstances.
If you put it this way, all people using planes are by definiton suspected terrorists because of existence of security checks. Nobody says they all are, but there's suspicion and therefore investigation. It's not discrimination, it's not rocket sceince.
 
If six months long imprisonment was a part of standard airport security check in America, then it would be a fair comparison.
 
Last edited:
I believe six months long imprisonment is usually not a part of standard security check in America.
Neither is part of standard illegal immigration from cold war rival country known for its espionage presence that is currently warring in another supported state
 
Thank you for proving my point once again, even if not realizing it.

As I said before, I expected to see all kinds of excuses to justify these cases and that nobody will admit that people might actually be mistreated.
 
Last edited:
If six months long imprisonment was a part of standard airport security check in America, then it would be a fair comparison.
Ask Navalny's wife about Russian justice. Keep in mind that Putin and his agents have a 9 year + history (since Trump...) of messing with US politics and and social media.
 
Thank you for proving my point once again, even if not realizing it.

Thank you for proving my point once again, even if not realizing it. Everyone can respond like this.
 
Ask Navalny's wife about Russian justice. Keep in mind that Putin and his agents have a 9 year + history (since Trump...) of messing with US politics and and social media.
Keep in mind that "Russian collusion" is yet another fake narrative created and used for internal US political purposes and election campaigns. America has long track record of them.
 
Last edited:
Keep in mind that "Russian collusion" is yet another fake narrative created and used for internal US political purposes and election campaigns.
On this we will disagree. Your take is just more of Trump's "fake news" spiel.
 
Part 1. Ugledar resident Olga Ivanovna Byshenko-Epifanova:

"The Ukrainian military told us, they intimidated the old people: "Dig your own graves, the Russians will kill you all when they come." These threats were heard constantly. Of course, after such words, it is impossible to sleep peacefully. We lived in constant fear.

The Ukrainian military stole, drank. They intimidated us by saying that if they left, they would destroy everything. They threatened the locals with taking over their homes, saying: "These houses are now our dachas." We understood that they hated us.

We lived under terrible psychological pressure, and many are still afraid to talk about it. The Ukrainian Armed Forces left us no choice - if you do not obey them, your loved ones will suffer."
"Ukrainian soldiers were looting and robbing city residents. I saw it with my own eyes.

People left their things at home when they left and planned to return. Our house was also locked. Armed Ukrainian soldiers came and wanted to break down the doors. They forced us to open them. They came in with empty bags and came out with full ones. Everything happened openly and brazenly
, in broad daylight, in front of many neighbors.

In July 2022, Ukrainian soldiers robbed houses and took them away in KamAZ trucks. Afterwards, people found their things in the markets.

We were afraid of the Ukrainian soldiers, afraid to say anything to them. They were rarely sober, often had drunken shootouts. At that time, we locked ourselves in the basement."
Residents of Ugledar Marina Vladimirovna and Sergey Anatolyevich Goloborodko: "A Ukrainian soldier stabbed a miner with a knife, the artery was damaged. He bled to death in just a few minutes. Everything was hushed up, there were no consequences for the soldier. The Ukrainian military shelled the city, creating panic so that people would leave. This began even before the Russian troops arrived, at the end of February 2022. On the 24th, for the first time, something big flew here, to the hospital area. Two people died. We lived in the basement of the school. Initially, there were 680 of us. Some left, some died. "White Angels" came and threatened to forcibly take away children if the parents did not leave for Ukraine. The SBU was hunting for the men. They checked phones, documents, took those who they could find. We did not have time to hide two men, and they were taken to serve in the Ukrainian troops. I was forced to leave, accused of separatism for staying in Ugledar."
It has become more difficult to communicate with those who left for Ukraine. Those with whom there is a connection say that you can't buy bread if you ask for it in Russian. It is dangerous to speak Russian on the phone in the street. My friend and I used to speak Russian, but now she will only speak Ukrainian - if someone hears her speaking Russian, she will get into trouble. In Ugledar, many of the Ukrainian soldiers were intoxicated with alcohol or drugs - twitchy, dilated pupils, inadequate behavior. This was almost constant. At night, they shot in the air or at the windows - for fun. We tried to hide, not to be seen. Two Ukrainian soldiers searched a house next to the school. We were told that they were checking the positions. The next day, five came with weapons and were going to blow up the door. One of them were on drugs - his pupils were dilated. Half were drunk. They started threatening us, pointing machine guns at us, shouting: "We will shoot you", checked our passports, searched the basement. We thought they would shoot us."
Resident of the village of Korovyakovka Viktor Vasilievich (Kursk region):

"Ukrainian soldiers fired at us. Mortar shelling every day. Korovyakovka is only three kilometers from the border, and many houses came under fire. My parents' house was damaged - the blast wave blew out the windows. The neighboring house burned down completely.

Ukraine fired at civilians. There were no soldiers in the village at the time. A man from a neighboring street came under fire on his way to the store and died on the spot from wounds to the abdominal cavity."

thank you for sourcing, but it's incredible that you think this can also compare to the NYT article about the widespread torture of Ukrainian civilians.

there was (and surely still are) Russian civilians killed during the Kursk offensive, some in what could be war crimes, but there is no report of widespread torture.



Thank you for proving my point once again, even if not realizing it.

As I said before, I expected to see all kinds of excuses to justify these cases and that nobody will admit that people might actually be mistreated.

I've no doubt some of the illegal immigrants in the US are actually mistreated. I'm not surprised illegal immigrant from a country "at war with the occident" are suspicious and submitted to longer checks.


"What we see now - yes, we have a difficult, tough situation, we are waging a war with the West. And some minimal restrictions on those who actually act on the enemy's side are not repressions, these are minimal sanitary measures," he noted.

(nuance may have escaped the automated translation, in French articles it's "being at war", not "waging a war")

note that "minimal sanitary measures" in Russia means almost 2 years in jail for a children drawing

 

Russian drones hunt civilians, evidence suggests​

Just before noon one day Serhiy Dobrovolsky, a hardware trader, returned to his home in Kherson in southern Ukraine. He stepped into his yard, lit a cigarette and chatted with his next-door neighbour. Suddenly, they heard the sound of a drone buzzing overhead.
Angela, Serhiy's wife of 32 years, says she saw her husband run and take cover as the drone dropped a grenade. "He died before the ambulance arrived. I was told he was very unlucky, because a piece of shrapnel pierced his heart," she says, breaking down.
Serhiy is one of 30 civilians killed in a sudden surge in Russian drone attacks in Kherson since 1 July, the city’s military administration told the BBC. They have recorded more than 5,000 drone attacks over the same period, with more than 400 civilians injured.
Drones have changed warfare in Ukraine, with both Ukraine and Russia using them against military targets.
But the BBC has heard eyewitness testimony and seen credible evidence that suggest Russia is using drones also against civilians in the frontline city of Kherson.
"They can see who they are killing," says Angela. "Is this how they want to fight, by just bombing people walking in the streets?"
If Russia is found to be intentionally targeting civilians, it would be a war crime.
The Russian military did not respond to the BBC’s questions about the allegations. Since its full-scale invasion in February 2022, Russia has consistently denied deliberately targeting civilians.

Evidence of apparent drone attacks on civilians can be seen in numerous videos shared on Ukrainian and Russian social media, six of which were examined by BBC Verify.
In each video, we see through the remote operator’s camera as they track the movements of a pedestrian or motorist in civilian clothing, often dropping grenades which sometimes appear to seriously injure or kill their target.
BBC Verify was also able to identify a Telegram channel which has the earliest public copies yet seen of five of the six videos analysed.
They were each posted with goading and threats to the Ukrainian public, including claims that all vehicles were legitimate targets and that people should minimise their public movement. The injured people were also insulted, called "pigs" or in one case mocked for being a woman.
The account posting some of these drone videos also posted images of boxed and unboxed drones, and other images of equipment, thanking people for their donations.

Kherson’s military administration told the BBC that Russia has changed the type of drone it is using and the city’s electronic systems can no longer intercept a majority of them.
“You feel like you’re constantly being hunted, like someone is always looking at you, and can drop explosives at any moment. It’s the worst thing,” says Kristina Synia, who works at an aid centre just 1km (0.6 mile) from the Dnipro river.
To get to the centre without being followed by drones, we drive at a high speed, take the cover of trees while parking, and then head indoors quickly.
On a shelf behind Kristina, a small device confirms the threat outside – buzzing each time it detects a drone. It buzzed every few minutes while we were there – often detecting the presence of at least four drones.
Trauma is visible on the faces of the residents we meet, who have braved stepping out of their homes only to stock up on food. Valentyna Mykolaivna wipes her eyes, “We are in a horrible situation. When we come out, we move from one tree to another, taking cover. Every day they attack public buses, every day they drop bombs on us using drones,” she says.
Olena Kryvchun says she was narrowly missed by a drone strike on her car. Minutes before she was due to get back in her car after visiting a friend, a bomb fell through the roof above the driver’s seat, ripping through one side of the vehicle and leaving it a mangled mess of metal, plastic and glass.

“If I’d been in my car, I would have died. Do I look like a military person, does my car look like a military car?” she says. She works as a cleaner and the car was essential to her work. She doesn’t have the money to fix it.
Olena says drones are more terrifying than shelling. “When we hear a shell launch from the other side of the river, we have time to react. With drones, you can easily miss their sound. They are quick, they see you and strike.”
Ben Dusing, who runs the aid centre, says drones spread even more fear than shelling, immobilising the population. “If a drone locks on you, the truth is it’s probably ‘game over’ at that point. There’s no defence against it,” he says.
In the last few months, says Oleksandr Prokudin, spokesman for Kherson’s military administration, the Russian military has also begun to use drones to remotely drop mines along pedestrian, car and bus routes.
He said explosions had been caused by butterfly mines - small, anti-personnel mines which can glide to the ground and detonate later on contact - which are coated with leaves to camouflage them.
The BBC has not been able to verify the use of drones to distribute mines in Kherson.
Olena says that as winter approaches, the fear of drones will get worse. “When the leaves fall from the trees, there will be many more victims. Because if you are in the street, there’s nowhere to hide.”

How we verified the drone videos​

We were able to locate the six videos we analysed, which were all filmed in the eastern side of Kherson, by identifying distinctive features in the city streets. In one case - where a drone dropped an explosive on two pedestrians, injuring one of them so badly he could not walk - this was a curve at a T-junction, which pointed to the Dniprovs'kyi district or the nearby suburb of Antonivka, rather than Kherson city centre.
Once we identified a possible location, we were able to match visible landmarks in the video to satellite images - in this case the buildings and pylons - confirming where in the city the attack took place.
To try to establish where the videos had first appeared publicly, we ran several frames from each through search engines. Often the earliest result was a particular Telegram channel, pre-dating reposts on sites such as X or Reddit by several hours.
Having the location of each attack, we were able to calculate the time of filming using the shadows and to cross-reference with weather records to find the most likely date.
Four of the videos we examined were posted on the Telegram channel the day after the likely filming, and in one example, it was posted eight hours later the same day.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c207gz7key6o
 

The Special Counsel investigation uncovered extensive criminal activity

  • The investigation produced 37 indictments; seven guilty pleas or convictions; and compelling evidence that the president obstructed justice on multiple occasions. Mueller also uncovered and referred 14 criminal matters to other components of the Department of Justice.
  • Trump associates repeatedly lied to investigators about their contacts with Russians, and President Trump refused to answer questions about his efforts to impede federal proceedings and influence the testimony of witnesses.
  • A statement signed by over 1,000 former federal prosecutors concluded that if any other American engaged in the same efforts to impede federal proceedings the way Trump did, they would likely be indicted for multiple charges of obstruction of justice.


Russia engaged in extensive attacks on the U.S. election system in 2016

  • Russian interference in the 2016 election was “sweeping and systemic.”[1]
  • Major attack avenues included a social media “information warfare” campaign that “favored” candidate Trump[2] and the hacking of Clinton campaign-related databases and release of stolen materials through Russian-created entities and Wikileaks.[3]
  • Russia also targeted databases in many states related to administering elections gaining access to information for millions of registered voters.[4]


The investigation “identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump Campaign” and established that the Trump Campaign “showed interest in WikiLeaks's releases of documents and welcomed their potential to damage candidate Clinton”

  • In 2015 and 2016, Michael Cohen pursued a hotel/residence project in Moscow on behalf of Trump while he was campaigning for President.[5] Then-candidate Trump personally signed a letter of intent.
  • Senior members of the Trump campaign, including Paul Manafort, Donald Trump, Jr., and Jared Kushner took a June 9, 2016, meeting with Russian nationals at Trump Tower, New York, after outreach from an intermediary informed Trump, Jr., that the Russians had derogatory information on Clinton that was “part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump.”[6]
  • Beginning in June 2016, a Trump associate “forecast to senior [Trump] Campaign officials that WikiLeaks would release information damaging to candidate Clinton.”[7] A section of the Report that remains heavily redacted suggests that Roger Stone was this associate and that he had significant contacts with the campaign about Wikileaks.[8]
  • The Report described multiple occasions where Trump associates lied to investigators about Trump associate contacts with Russia. Trump associates George Papadopoulos, Rick Gates, Michael Flynn, and Michael Cohen all admitted that they made false statements to federal investigators or to Congress about their contacts. In addition, Roger Stone faces trial this fall for obstruction of justice, five counts of making false statements, and one count of witness tampering.
  • The Report contains no evidence that any Trump campaign official reported their contacts with Russia or WikiLeaks to U.S. law enforcement authorities during the campaign or presidential transition, despite public reports on Russian hacking starting in June 2016 and candidate Trump’s August 2016 intelligence briefing warning him that Russia was seeking to interfere in the election.
  • The Report raised questions about why Trump associates and then-candidate Trump repeatedly asserted Trump had no connections to Russia.[9]


Special Counsel Mueller declined to exonerate President Trump and instead detailed multiple episodes in which he engaged in obstructive conduct

  • The Mueller Report states that if the Special Counsel’s Office felt they could clear the president of wrongdoing, they would have said so. Instead, the Report explicitly states that it “does not exonerate” the President[10] and explains that the Office of Special Counsel “accepted” the Department of Justice policy that a sitting President cannot be indicted.[11]
  • The Mueller report details multiple episodes in which there is evidence that the President obstructed justice. The pattern of conduct and the manner in which the President sought to impede investigations—including through one-on-one meetings with senior officials—is damning to the President.
  • Five episodes of obstructive conduct stand out as being particularly serious:
    • In June 2017 President Trump directed White House Counsel Don McGahn to order the firing of the Special Counsel after press reports that Mueller was investigating the President for obstruction of justice;[12] months later Trump asked McGahn to falsely refute press accounts reporting this directive and create a false paper record on this issue – all of which McGahn refused to do.[13]
    • After National Security Advisor Michael Flynn was fired in February 2017 for lying to FBI investigators about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Kislyak, Trump cleared his office for a one-on-one meeting with then-FBI Director James Comey and asked Comey to “let [Flynn] go;” he also asked then-Deputy National Security Advisor K.T. McFarland to draft an internal memo saying Trump did not direct Flynn to call Kislyak, which McFarland did not do because she did not know whether that was true.[14]
    • In July 2017, the President directed former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski to instruct the Attorney General to limit Mueller’s investigation, a step the Report asserted “was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the President’s and his campaign’s conduct.”[15]
    • In 2017 and 2018, the President asked the Attorney General to “un-recuse” himself from the Mueller inquiry, actions from which a “reasonable inference” could be made that “the President believed that an unrecused Attorney General would play a protective role and could shield the President from the ongoing Russia Investigation.”[16]
    • The Report raises questions about whether the President, by and through his private attorneys, floated the possibility of pardons for the purpose of influencing the cooperation of Flynn, Manafort, and an unnamed person with law enforcement.[17]


Congress needs to continue investigating and assessing elements of the Mueller Report

  • The redactions of the Mueller Report appear to conceal the extent to which the Trump campaign had advance knowledge of the release of hacked emails by WikiLeaks. For instance, redactions conceal content of discussions that the Report states occurred between Trump, Cohen, and Manafort in July 2016 shortly after Wikileaks released hacked emails;[18] the Report further notes, “Trump told Gates that more releases of damaging information would be coming,” but redacts the contextual information around that statement.[19]
  • A second issue the Report does not examine is the fact that the President was involved in conduct that was the subject of a case the Special Counsel referred to the Southern District of New York – which the Report notes “ultimately led to the conviction of Cohen in the Southern District of New York for campaign-finance offenses related to payments he said he made at the direction of the President.”[20]
  • The Report also redacts in entirety its discussion of 12 of the 14 matters Mueller referred to other law enforcement authorities.[21]
  • Further, the Report details non-cooperation with the inquiry by the President, including refusing requests by the Special Counsel for an interview; providing written responses that the Office of the Special Counsel considered “incomplete” and “imprecise” and that involved the President stating on “more than 30 occasions that he ‘does not recall’ or ‘remember’ or ‘have an independent recollection.’”[22]
 
thank you for sourcing, but it's incredible that you think this can also compare to the NYT article about the widespread torture of Ukrainian civilians.
Only because I just copy-pasted last 5 reported cases with auto-translation and didn't have time to cherry pick worst reports, like it's done in NYT article.
note that "minimal sanitary measures" in Russia means almost 2 years in jail for a children drawing
Not for a "children drawing" obviously, though I won't be surprised if your media spun it that way.
 
For example, few reports I can find in English.

The report presents first-hand direct testimony from victims of Ukrainian war crimes. In the Kurskregion, the Ukrainian armed forces shot civilians, including women, children and the elderly, both in theirown homes and while attempting to evacuate them in civilian vehicles, with full understanding of the nonmilitary status of the victims, according to survivors, sometimes looking them directly in the face.The words of the victims are direct accusations of the Ukrainian regime, which, with the supportof Western countries, systematically and purposefully killed Russian citizens with small arms, unmannedaerial vehicles (both kamikaze UAVs and the dropping of grenades and various explosive devices fromthem are used), by shelling peaceful private homes with artillery and multiple rocket launchers.

Didn't have time to fully read them yet, can search for more later if it's needed.
 
Last edited:
Being Russian now means being conspiratorial – because it helps with rationalizing all the Russian states bad actions – themselves the outcome of bad effects due to the outcome of bad choices of bad actions. It's the only way to try to maintain this veneer of put-upon blamelessness.

Anything with a .ru adress is by definition not credible – we do listen in to the daily stream of Russian domestic propaganda slated for internal consumption. There's not much of it that makes it across the language barrier, because of the inherent nature of the messaging. I.e. the Russian government has an interest in broadcasting this to the Russian public – but if broadcasted internationally it has a higher risk of just directly damaging the Russian government and whatever case it is trying to build for itself outside Russia. It's that crude.
 
I'll wait for UN reports
 
You do realize you're trying to deal in good faith with a bad faith actor ?
I mean, he's been actively and deliberately twisting facts to support a pro-Russian narrative since the original invasion of Crimea, with the full propagandist "Russia wouldn't ever attack Ukraine, they're brother", "It's not Russian soldiers who occupied Crimea, it's native people who want to join Russia", "these were Russian soldiers that were welcomed by the local population" and so on, with the chain of false argument being string along with no recognition of previous lies and just 1984-like redefinition of the past on the fly ?
 
Last edited:
I'll wait for UN reports
There were OHCHR reports about torture of Russian prisoners.
IIRC you concluded that they were treated better than Ukrainians, basing on the fact that they reported less cases percentage-wise.
When the report specifically said Russians were interviewed while still in captivity, and Ukrainians already after release.
 
And all the EU ever did was spread some sparse rays of potential sunshine on Ukraine... Russia could just have sat back and waited for a backlash of Ukranian disappointment with the EU accession processes...

The way things stand right now, had Russia decided to spend its entire 600 billion USD assorted wealth funds on doing nice things for Ukraine alone, it would have been infinitely better off than it currently is – and with Ukraine incentivised to actually view Russia as a "brotherly nation". Ukraine would be way better off, Russia could have made a valuable investment at no direct cost itself (the wealth fund was already a sunk cost), no international relations would have been wrecked, and everybody would have lived.

And we are all here now because Ukraine wanted a future better than the past and current, and the only attractive option on the charts was an EU one. And the problem is that this Russian government does not understand win-win, it does not understand the point of making what you want align with what the other party wants. Moscow is only one-directional, and it is all about forcing everyone to do what they are told, or else... And that's how things end up like they have.

Sprinkle Russian self-exculpation and blame-shifting on top – and maybe that works inside the Russia echo-chamber – but for the rest it's bleedin' obvious no one had anything even beginning to approach a "master-plan" for Ukraine in the EU. (Never mind NATO – much less the Russian canard of a "coup" in 2014 – that was ever only Russian conspiracy theories). And even now, with the war approaching year 4, the west, while still aiding Ukraine, clearly has never had and still lacks any kind of actual thought through strategy – and is only ever reacting to developments.

And it's all Russian bad choices, of bad means, for inappropriate purposes – and then doubling down on them when things blew up in its face. It's a classic case of – "Worse than a crime [while it still is!], it's a mistake".
 
Top Bottom