Slavery Reparations: Is it time?

[Zulu Impi]

Actually, I'm totally on board with "when". The problem is just that the "when" was in 1865, or there abouts. If the North had any guts, they'd've torched the plantation houses and broken up the land between the slaves- maybe hanged a few planters just to get the point across- but that would have meant putting altogether more economic power into the hands of the American black than was considered proper. So, unfortunately, the boat has rather sailed on that one.

Strictly speaking the practices of discrimination ended far later than that and slavery was essentially in-place long after 1865 through the practice of convict leasing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_lease
Though for a long time I've thought reparations to be absurd, lately looking into it there definitely is a lot to answer for, if the United States as a country is responsible for its actions I don't think reparations are completely unreasonable.

Like a few people were saying there is a precedent with what Ronald Reagan did 40 years after the fact and different policies towards Natives that have been farther out then that. The United States essentially had institutionalized racism for our first 150 or so years with several states continuing till the Civil Rights movement, it didn't end with the civil war, victims of this are still alive today.

 

[Commodore]

Strictly speaking the practices of discrimination ended far later than that and slavery was essentially in-place long after 1865 through the practice of convict leasing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convict_lease
Though for a long time I've thought reparations to be absurd, lately looking into it there definitely is a lot to answer for, if the United States as a country is responsible for its actions I don't think reparations are completely unreasonable.

Like a few people were saying there is a precedent with what Ronald Reagan did 40 years after the fact and different policies towards Natives that have been farther out then that. The United States essentially had institutionalized racism for our first 150 or so years with several states continuing till the Civil Rights movement, it didn't end with the civil war, victims of this are still alive today.

I still don't see why that means I have to pay reparations. And it will be the average person who pays since anything the government does to compensate these so-called "victims" will come out of tax dollars. The simple fact is reparations in 1866 would have been fair, reparations in 2012 are not fair.

 

[luiz]

I want reparations from Portugal for all the gold, diamods and wood they took from Brazil without paying!


Oh, no I don't, because I am not a giant cry baby idiot who complains about stuff that ended over a century ago.

 

[Commodore]

I want reparations from Portugal for all the gold, diamods and wood they took from Brazil without paying!


Oh, no I don't, because I am not a giant cry baby idiot who complains about stuff that ended over a century ago.

The real funny thing about this is black people in the US aren't even asking for reparations and they really don't care about the issue. The only people here that think they should get reparations are the bleeding heart whites who, for some reason, still feel guilty about slavery.

 

[Hygro]

That's a can of worms that should better stay closed. One way or another, pretty much everyone alive in the US while slavery was still practised was involved in it. Hundreds and thousands of companies and millions of people. If you started tracing back who "inherited" the responsibility, you'd just end up with a very unfair and largely arbitrary selection of companies and people who should "pay reparations".

Just draw a thick line and let history be history - it is way too late for a "just payback".

So should Swiss banks hold on to Nazi's stolen gold?

 

[Yeekim]

When we had to draw our "family-tree" back in school, I got back to an ancestor who was born into serfdom (abolished here in 1816).
I am still waiting for reparations!

 

[Lone Wolf]

When we had to draw our "family-tree" back in school, I got back to an ancestor who was born into serfdom (abolished here in 1816).

And "Russian proper" peasants had to wait 'till 1861 They received a limited amount of land, though, which Estonians didn't. Russia was a weird empire.

 

[LegionSteve]

I think the English owe the Irish a thing or two. The Russians a whole bunch of people.

I consider myself English, my family has been in England for at least 4 generations. Before that my ancestors were in the south of Ireland, no doubt being oppressed by the English. How much do you think I should pay to myself in reparations?

 

[Quackers]

Indeed, considering that like a huge chunk of the present English population have an Irishman somewhere in there family tree (like me!) it would be hard to work out whether they deserve it or deserve to pay up!

 

[Silurian]

About 6 million UK citizens have the right to be Irish citizens.
At least 25% have some Irish ancestors.

 

[kochman]

Every other race and culture on Earth also engaged in slavery and plunder.

So why aren't they all rich?

They weren't as good at it?

Our ancestors? My ancestors were all dirt poor, which is why they left their home countries in the first place.

Yes, in Europe, the common man was also being exploited... a small percentage moved to the USA and exploited black slaves, the overwhelming majority did not.

U$A and the UKKK had been oppressing the masses of India and Afrika* for a long, long time.

*Never understood why they insist on spelling Afrika with a k. You'd think that that'd be too much like Amerika.

The USA oppressed India? How? Africa?



Bottom line is, the USA paid reparations already, it was called the Civil War.

 

[Traitorfish]

Bottom line is, the USA paid reparations already, it was called the Civil War.

Do you really think that upgrading Souther blacks from chattel slavery to debt-bondage was all that could be asked of the Union?

 

[downtown]

Would reparations for Southern Blacks have been appropriate in 1975, for segregation?

 

[Cutlass]

We're paying reparations to American Indians now. So there's your legal precedent.

 

[luiz]

We're paying reparations to American Indians now. So there's your legal precedent.

So is everybody with indian blood entitled to reparations? This includes Johnny Depp, Angelina Jolie, and probably tens of millions (if not the majority) of white Americans. What is the Indian threshold that must be met for someone to qualify for those reparations? How is that determined? Racial science, nazi textbooks? Or is self-identification the way to go?

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

The time for reparations was the 1870s. This is now, can we just shut up about race?

Do you really think that upgrading Souther blacks from chattel slavery to debt-bondage was all that could be asked of the Union?

What about all the blood spilled just to achieve just that? Is all that sacrifice wasted because they improved the lot of their fellow man just a little? Were the lives of all the Allied soldeirs wasted because we didn't overthrow Franco, or Stalin while we were at it?

 

[tokala]

We're paying reparations to American Indians now. So there's your legal precedent.

Reparations might be a misleading term for that. Most Indian lands were ceded via legal treaties between nominally independent nations (US vs. respective tribe)
With specific treaty regulations frequently ignored by the US gouvernment, the most blatant cases of fraud have resulted in compensations awarded by commissions and courts. In some cases there appear to have been pretty nasty strings attached to those compensations.
AFAIK the money goes to the respective tribal governments (example the Black Hills case), federal government entities charged with indian affairs or to the affected indivuals (example for both the latter the Cobell case).
In any case you have to be the member of a federally recognized tribe to have any chance to get money, and if there are per capita payments at all, the amount of money tend to be not exactly overwhelming.

I am no lawyer, but I would think "reparations" describe extrajudicial payments.
AFAIK, there has not been any (substantial) "reparations" aimed explicitely to compensate for the historical, continental scale ethnic cleansing suffered by the Indian tribes.

 

[Traitorfish]

The time for reparations was the 1870s. This is now, can we just shut up about race?

There's a massive leap between "this is now" and can we just shut about race" that I can't even begin to comprehend.

What about all the blood spilled just to achieve just that? Is all that sacrifice wasted because they improved the lot of their fellow man just a little? Were the lives of all the Allied soldeirs wasted because we didn't overthrow Franco, or Stalin while we were at it?

I didn't say "wasted". I'm not sure how you inferred that. I'm just saying that it wasn't enough.

 

[kochman]

And, currently, on this highly left wing board... 7.5% agree with you.

 

[Traitorfish]

And, currently, on this highly left wing board... 7.5% agree with you.

That isn't what the poll says. I voted "no", at any rate, so unless I hugely misunderstood the OP...