The real apartheid state.

[Borachio]

There's nothing silly about a silly hat, sir.

Silly hats are serious business.

 

[Formaldehyde]

It never did. The Jews chose Palestine for their state because it was land of their ancestors, but they never claimed that it should be theirs because of it. Huge difference.

So now you speak for all Jews?

Ever heard of the movie and the song Exodus?


Link to video.

What do you think "This land is mine. God gave this land to me" means?

You really don't seem to know much at all about the history of Israel, much less the Jews who populate Brooklyn. While some of the orthodox Jews do indeed follow the ancient practices of thinking they are superior to non-Jews and won't even invite them into their houses, they represent a very small minority.

Intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews occurs all the time, especially in places like Brooklyn where there is a sizable population of Jews.

I wonder why they just won't use the stairs, instead of resorting to this loophole. Obviously God isn't an idiot. I mean, obviously he doesn't actually exist, but c'mon.. this is sillier than silly hats.

You do realize there are skyscrapers in Israel?

Spoiler :

Many of the hotels in particular have elevators that operate automatically on the Sabbath.

Some Orthodox Jews are so serious about this matter that they even pay others to to turn on and off the lights on the Sabbath.

 

[warpus]

So don't live in a skyscraper, problem solved. I mean, if you're really so religious that you pay careful attention to such esoteric rules. If on some days you can't even press a button, stay at home and read a book. Or don't, I don't know - maybe you're not allowed to do that either. Just spend the whole day in bed and lounge around. Don't go visit any skyscrapers, that's for sure.

 

[Mouthwash]

They don't function like their own countries. They don't have their own army, they are subject to the laws of New York City, New York State, and the United States of America. Just because there are community centers, charitable organizations, special schools, and conflict resolution systems doesn't mean it's like a different country. More like a community.

It makes the same point, and yes they do practically function like another country (yer equivocating with state). Do you think that anyone really cares about silly rules like "separation of church and state" over there? I've visited Satmar relatives there and the place feels like an Ashkenazi theocracy more than anything. It's obviously not that way in all of Brooklyn, but have you ever been to their neighborhoods?

There's even a Jewish police force in London, I've heard.

I wonder why they just won't use the stairs, instead of resorting to this loophole. Obviously God isn't an idiot. I mean, obviously he doesn't actually exist, but c'mon.. this is sillier than silly hats.

The ridiculousness doesn't stop there... although the Shabbat elevator really isn't all that of a loophole. The specific commandment is not not actually "alter" electricity... so you can have lights and stuff on Shabbat, you just can't turn them on or off, or drive, or do anything that requires making use of it yourself. You also can't cook, transform something to another state (like boiling water, or rubbing soap from a bar), break anything, write, touch sticks or stones, "create" anything (no puzzles), trade, hunt, kindle or extinguish fire, and even touch anything which is forbidden to use.

Plenty of Haredim don't brush their teeth or use a comb on Shabbat. You're not even allowed to cry, according to some, because it's meant to be happy.

It's not all bad... I found the atmosphere very nice when I lived at my aunt's. It's collective self-discipline on our part.

So now you speak for all Jews?

No, I'm speaking for the history books.

Intermarriage between Jews and non-Jews occurs all the time, especially in places like Brooklyn where there is a sizable population of Jews.

Not religious ones.

So don't live in a skyscraper, problem solved. I mean, if you're really so religious that you pay careful attention to such esoteric rules. If on some days you can't even press a button, stay at home and read a book. Or don't, I don't know - maybe you're not allowed to do that either. Just spend the whole day in bed and lounge around. Don't go visit any skyscrapers, that's for sure.

People like that don't live in Tel Aviv. They live in their religious moshavim and towns, even more segregated from Israeli society than Arabs normally are.

#provesmypoint

 

[Borachio]

Link to video.

 

[Formaldehyde]

So don't live in a skyscraper, problem solved. I mean, if you're really so religious that you pay careful attention to such esoteric rules. If on some days you can't even press a button, stay at home and read a book. Or don't, I don't know - maybe you're not allowed to do that either. Just spend the whole day in bed and lounge around. Don't go visit any skyscrapers, that's for sure.

Hotels in Israel are where they are frequently found to accommodate Orthodox Jews as guests.

But there are also found in high-rise apartment buildings in Orthodox neighborhoods in NYC.

 

[warpus]

God really needs to crack down on people abusing his rules like that. If you can't press buttons, you also shouldn't be able to check into a hotel in a goddamn skyscraper. Goddamit

 

[Borachio]

Are you allowed to lie in bed pressing your belly button? If not, I really don't think Judaism is for me.

Still, could I get someone else to press it for me?

 

[Gucumatz]

You know what after reading this thread I propose that Cyprus becomes the rightful owner of Israel (+ the West Bank and Gaza). Surely Cyprus would be a less chaotic suzerain of the land

Anyhow, any-time the current geographic definition of Israel gets some degree of independence there always seems to be problems. Would having an impartial overlord not actually be better for the peace and sanity of the citizens here? Compare eras of semi-autonomous rule/independence to control by the Ottomans or Romans ie. This might be a case where a state deserves to lose its independence like in the thread Mr. "NSA" VRWC Agent proposed in WH.

 

[Mouthwash]

God really needs to crack down on people abusing his rules like that. If you can't press buttons, you also shouldn't be able to check into a hotel in a goddamn skyscraper. Goddamit

They don't go to hotels on Shabbat lol.

 

[Agent327]

The Zionists were Jews. Every religious Jew is technically a Zionist in some sense of the word because we believe that we will all be sent back to Israel after the Messiah comes.

Right. You're still missing the point.

Are you even on the same planet, let alone the same arena of debate?

Should I even comment? Since you're obviously not:

Right. So ethnic cleansing is not only OK but a good idea? If someone should decide to ethnically cleanse their country of Jews that would be OK would it?

Depends. Is there country in danger of becoming Jewish dominated itself? If so, then absolutely.

...which makes me kind of relieved you're not in charge of any state.

Who precisely has parroted these myths?

Generations of Zionists, for one.

 

[timtofly]

I wonder why they just won't use the stairs, instead of resorting to this loophole. Obviously God isn't an idiot. I mean, obviously he doesn't actually exist, but c'mon.. this is sillier than silly hats.

I think that more than one flight of stars would also be prohibitive on the Sabbath. While you just look at it as ingrained psychology, you have to admit, that they have kept this among themselves even after their God destroyed their homeland and they ended up all over the globe. And to think the Exodus never happened according to modern thought processes.

 

[Borachio]

You know what after reading this thread I propose that Cyprus becomes the rightful owner of Israel (+ the West Bank and Gaza). Surely Cyprus would be a less chaotic suzerain of the land.

Anyhow, any-time the current geographic definition of Israel gets some degree of independence there always seems to be problems. Would having an impartial overlord not actually be better for the peace and sanity of the citizens here? Compare eras of semi-autonomous rule/independence to control by the Ottomans or Romans ie. This might be a case where a state deserves to lose its independence like in the thread Mr. "NSA" VRWC Agent proposed in WH.

What about the UN running Israel as an international state? (Or is that a whatsit? A contradiction in terms? Dammit! I mean an oxymoron.) Wasn't Jerusalem an international city at one stage?

edit: Ooh no. Though some people thought it should be.

Still, there's the examples of Danzig, Trieste and Tangiers to consider.

 

[warpus]

I think that more than one flight of stars would also be prohibitive on the Sabbath. While you just look at it as ingrained psychology, you have to admit, that they have kept this among themselves even after their God destroyed their homeland and they ended up all over the globe. And to think the Exodus never happened according to modern thought processes.

I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm still really jetlagged and out of it, but to me it's like a guy 3,000 years ago saying something like

"Okay everyone, listen up, no pressing buttons on Tuesdays, REMEMBER, we have to stick together"

and then everyone kinda grumbles and goes along with it, and wow, yeah, after all these years they're still following that tradition. It's impressive, I've got to admit, I would have been pressing buttons left and right right away

 

[Tahuti]

What about the UN running Israel as an international state? (Or is that a whatsit? A contradiction in terms? Dammit! I mean an oxymoron.) Wasn't Jerusalem an international city at one stage?

edit: Ooh no. Though some people thought it should be.

Still, there's the examples of Danzig, Trieste and Tangiers to consider.

In the hypothetical scenario in which Israel gains an Arab majority, I could imagine several Jewish states seceding from this Arab Israel. I could imagine Jewish majority towns like Tel Aviv, Jerusalem, Eilat and several Jewish settlements in West-Bank becoming city-states.

 

[timtofly]

What about the UN running Israel as an international state? (Or is that a whatsit? A contradiction in terms? I mean an oxymoron.) Wasn't Jerusalem an international city at one stage?

edit: Ooh no. Though some people thought it should be.

Still, there's the examples of Danzig, Trieste and Tangiers to consider.

Hasn't Jerusalem been the longest running cosmopolitan "capital" in the world?

I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm still really jetlagged and out of it, but to me it's like a guy 3,000 years ago saying something like

"Okay everyone, listen up, no pressing buttons on Tuesdays, REMEMBER, we have to stick together"

and then everyone kinda grumbles and goes along with it, and wow, yeah, after all these years they're still following that tradition. It's impressive, I've got to admit, I would have been pressing buttons left and right right away

The Hebrews did that. They did not accept it right away. It has been a love hate relationship for most of it's existence.

 

[Agent327]

Hasn't Jerusalem been the longest running cosmopolitan "capital" in the world?

Errr...no. Not any of those.

 

[timtofly]

Do you have a contender, or reason for your protest?

 

[Agent327]

Various. But, as a religious focal point Jerusalem is probably unparalelled, being a holy city to no less than 3 world religions.

 

[Borachio]

Isn't London the most cosmopolitan city? With only 50% of the inhabitants being British born, and 145 (made up number) of nationalities living there?