The Real Problem with the US Pledge of Allegiance

[Formaldehyde]

It's like having a marriage vow that states until divorce do you part. Not that I am in favor pledging allegiance to either one...

 

[ace99]

Bring back the Bellamy salute

 

[civver_764]

I oppose the pledge because it exists.

 

[History_Buff]

I pledge allegiance to the constitution of the United States of America
and to the Republic to create which it was written
To defend her against all tyrants, both foreign and domestic.
One nation, under God (If you need this line, some people do)
Founded on right of secession
With liberty and justice for all.

You realize of course that the Constitution did not create the United States?

 

[rugbyLEAGUEfan]

Has it ever been more important to the future of this forum that a certain member has sex?

 

[ace99]

He's clearly lost his virginity to Ron Paul so I don't know what you mean. (Or has Ron Paul lost his virginity to him? )

 

[MobBoss]

We already answered the 'indivisible' part back in the 1860s.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There shouldn't be a pledge, but if people value the tradition let them have their fun.

 

[MobBoss]

There shouldn't be a pledge, but if people value the tradition let them have their fun.

Well, there is, and I agree with you its harmless. People need to find better things to complain about.

 

[warpus]

50 states under Jesus, indivisible by 0

 

[Leoreth]

Scrap the whole thing. It's a totalitarian tradition.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

You should pledge to Marx, Lenin, Engels and Obama.....




dear Libertarians, see what I did there

 

[Borachio]

Has it ever been more important to the future of this forum that a certain member has sex?

It might indeed make a difference. But might the certain member post information about his experiences .....?

 

[bhsup]

Has it ever been more important to the future of this forum that a certain member has sex?

3 minutes, 36 seconds being the appropriate starting point...


Link to video.

 

[Cutlass]

Is it just me or has GW been on a harder libertarian kick then usual lately?

When radical wingnut extremists are losing, they get more radical and wingnutty.

Truth be told, I don't care much for either the Evangelicals freaking out about the world ending if it is removed, or liberal atheists freaking out that the world is going to end if we keep it. Its not really a big deal.

The "Indivisible" part, on the other hand, denies that secession is EVER possible. Which makes me have plenty of problem reciting it.

Why should other people suffer just because you have zero tolerance for a free country?

 

[Camikaze]

Polls are only meant to have one joke option.

 

[peter grimes]

I must admit that GW16 makes an interesting point - the US was established when the colonies decided on their own to secede from Britain. So, in that light, we are founded on (or would it be by?) secession.

But I think it's a logical error to therefore assume that fact must be recited in a loyalty oath. Why not include the fact that the colonies relied on slavery?

I pledge allegiance, to this Constitution,
and the Nation founded therein on Slavery.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Shouldn't there be outrage over pledging to the flag?



The history of the pledge according to wiki

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
1892 to 1923
"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and to the Republic for which it stands: one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
1923 to 1924
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States and to the Republic for which it stands: one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1924 to 1954
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands; one Nation indivisible with liberty and justice for all."
1954 to Present
"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

1954 must have been one hell of a year. It's the year God discovered America and sat on it.

 

[Ajidica]

I must admit that GW16 makes an interesting point - the US was established when the colonies decided on their own to secede from Britain. So, in that light, we are founded on (or would it be by?) secession.

But I think it's a logical error to therefore assume that fact must be recited in a loyalty oath. Why not include the fact that the colonies relied on slavery?

I pledge allegiance, to this Constitution,
and the Nation founded therein on Slavery.

It should read:
"I pledge allegiance, to the Constition,
and the Nation founded therein in slavery,
and to the political dominance,
of wealthy white men only."

 

[Leoreth]

Shouldn't there be outrage over pledging to the flag?

There are so many stupid things about this pledge, I don't even know where to begin. The lack of recognition for secession definitely doesn't rank very highly on that list, though.

However, the best point in this thread has been made by MisterCooper of all people. You pledge loyalty to your nation. Want to be a secessionist? Then don't lie and pledge your allegiance!

Of course the very troubling social pressure built around this whole thing complicates the issue.