All your points only address drops in the overall crime rate. However, this specific statistic shows that more immigrants does not mean more (reported) crime. If immigration caused crime, we would expect that more immigrants would result in more crime, wouldn't we? None of your points address that.
What is going on in the UK?
- Thread starter EnglishEdward
- Start date
All your points only address drops in the overall crime rate. However, this specific statistic shows that more immigrants does not mean more (reported) crime. If immigration caused crime, we would expect that more immigrants would result in more crime, wouldn't we? None of your points address that.
EnglishEdward
Deity
I am not making the argument that more immigrants simply means more reported crime.
And I have already explained why I am sceptical of the referenced statistics.
And looking further at the report, it is so heavily caveated, it is not sensible to conclude much from it.
A point is if the population increases by 1% pa due to net immigration and the immigrant crime rate is
the same as the indigenous crime rate that would not result in an annual increase in crime of 1%, if
there are other changes going on that would have resulted in perhaps a 10% to 20% drop in crime rate.
Cloud_Strife
Deity
no you see, crimes by immigrants are somehow worse because
Who is paying the most for tax rises in the budget?
Income tax threshold freeze will hit poorer households harder, experts say
Income tax threshold freeze will hit poorer households harder, experts say
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2009
- Messages
- 8,778
British people are from Britain and are necessarily therefore in Britain, unless someone else has allowed them to move to their country. It's a meaningless comparison, or rather a comparison that ignores the meaning of the original complaint.
EnglishEdward
Deity
Well, I suppose the chancellor's budget could have been worse.
I got quite annoyed by all the so called leaks, much of which I
suspect was merely the press desperately making things up.
But it could have been better.
The mansion tax is at best a half hearted step. They really ought to have
introduced a new set of bands to the outdated 1991 council tax banding.
And I regard the messing about with ISAs to push people towards investing
in shares and derivatives as entirely pandering to the financial capitalists.
What I find most amusing is the OBR's projected increase in GDP from
1.0% to 1.5% pa, being attributed to productivity improvements from AI.
I got quite annoyed by all the so called leaks, much of which I
suspect was merely the press desperately making things up.
But it could have been better.
The mansion tax is at best a half hearted step. They really ought to have
introduced a new set of bands to the outdated 1991 council tax banding.
And I regard the messing about with ISAs to push people towards investing
in shares and derivatives as entirely pandering to the financial capitalists.
What I find most amusing is the OBR's projected increase in GDP from
1.0% to 1.5% pa, being attributed to productivity improvements from AI.
I don't know. Why does it matter?
It would.
What would you guess the results would be?
The point is, that if town A gets a lot of immigrants and town B does not, yet the crime rate in town A reduces more than in town B, the crime rate of the immigrants is likely lower than the one of the established residents.
EnglishEdward
Deity
Four points:
(a) The immigrants in your town A may be less trusting of the police and so less likely to report it.
(b) If the immigrants in Town A are poorer, they may have less property to steal, so there may be less theft.
(c) A major reason for reporting crime e.g. burglaries is because the insurance companies
insist on a police crime report number. If the immigrants are poorer they are less likely
to have insurance, so they are less likely to be motivated to report the theft.
(d) How can we attribute internet fraud (a rising crime I understand) to towns A or B or wherever else.
The thing is there is no sign in the reports, that I have read that the academic statisticians have caught
up with such, entirely obvious to me, subtleties. So I take comparative crime reports with a pinch of salt.
(a) The immigrants in your town A may be less trusting of the police and so less likely to report it.
(b) If the immigrants in Town A are poorer, they may have less property to steal, so there may be less theft.
(c) A major reason for reporting crime e.g. burglaries is because the insurance companies
insist on a police crime report number. If the immigrants are poorer they are less likely
to have insurance, so they are less likely to be motivated to report the theft.
(d) How can we attribute internet fraud (a rising crime I understand) to towns A or B or wherever else.
The thing is there is no sign in the reports, that I have read that the academic statisticians have caught
up with such, entirely obvious to me, subtleties. So I take comparative crime reports with a pinch of salt.
e: immigration =/= asylum seekers or illegal immigrants
Senethro
Overlord
You should put in half as much effort to your hysterical claims european civilization is being destroyed.
EnglishEdward
Deity
Quite so.
danjuno
Cole Phelps, Badge 1247
If the crime rate amongst immigrants is not meaningfully higher than natives, than the argument against immigration on the basis of crime seems unconvincing.
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
Sally Rooney books may be withdrawn from UK sale over Palestine Action ban, court told
Irish author Sally Rooney has told the High Court it is "almost certain" she cannot publish new novels in the UK and may have to withdraw her current books because of the banning of Palestine Action under terrorism laws.Rooney says UK legislation may mean she cannot be paid royalties by her British publisher or the BBC because it could leave both at risk of being accused of funding terrorism.
In August she said she intended to use royalties "to go on supporting Palestine Action."
The group was banned in July after the home secretary accused it of causing serious damage to property. Its co-founder is challenging that ban in the High Court, arguing it interferes with the right to protest.
The author of Normal People, which was adapted into one of the most watched BBC dramas of recent years, has supported the campaign to reverse the ban.
In two witness statements provided to the High Court, Rooney said she believed that Israel had committed genocide in Gaza - and Palestine Action's activity in the UK was from a "long and proud tradition of civil disobedience - the deliberate breaking of laws as an act of protest."
She goes on: "I myself have publicly advocated the use of direct action, including property sabotage, in the cause of climate justice. It stands to reason that I should support the same range of tactics in the effort to prevent genocide."
Israel has regularly denied that its actions in Gaza amount to genocide and says they are justified as a means of self-defence.
Rooney said the ban on Palestine Action under terrorism laws also had far reaching consequences for her as an author and her right to free expression.
She explained she periodically receives royalties from the BBC's adaptions.
In August she declared in an Irish Times article that she intended to use those royalties "to go on supporting Palestine Action."
Following that statement, she said she had been advised that any such payment to her for those televised dramatisations could be a breach of terrorism laws.
That warning had come from the independent producer of the two BBC dramatisations of her novels. It told her agent that it had received "unambiguous legal advice" that if it knew or suspected that Rooney was using royalties from the TV dramas to fund Palestine Action, then sending her the money would be a terrorism offence.
"It is therefore unclear whether any UK company can continue to make payments to me, even when it had agreed to do so," said Rooney.
Rooney told the court that this legal uncertainty affected her rights as an artist - and her publisher's too.
"If ... Faber & Faber Limited are legally prohibited from paying me the royalties I am owed, my existing works may have to be withdrawn from sale," she said.
"My novels have been influential and popular in Britain, where I am among the best-selling literary authors of the last decade.
"The disappearance of my work from bookshops would mark a truly extreme incursion by the state into the realm of artistic expression.
"It is also almost certain that I can no longer publish or produce any new work within the UK while this proscription remains in effect."
Rooney publicly revealed in September that she did not believe she could travel to the UK anymore because of her stance.
"I am and will continue to be a committed supporter of Palestine Action. If that support is criminalised, I will effectively be prevented from speaking at any future public events in the UK.
"Is it likely that I could ever again collaborate with British public institutions like the BBC as I have done in the past?"
The hearing continues through Thursday with a final day of submissions next week.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cm20ldz0g9ro
Manfred Belheim
Moaner Lisa
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2009
- Messages
- 8,778
If the carcinogen and toxin release rate of additional cigarettes is not meaningfully higher than cigarettes already smoked, then the the argument against ceasing smoking on the basis of health benefits seems unconvincing.
Senethro
Overlord
This would be true if it were the case.
If that was true then the argument for giving up smoking did not have massive effects on carcinogen and toxin release rate and therefore mortality, but it does.
Spoiler Graph of effect of giving up smoking :
Nigel Farage's Schooldays
Peter Ettedgui
“[Farage] would sidle up to me and growl: ‘Hitler was right’ or ‘gas them’, sometimes adding a long hiss to simulate the sound of the gas showers […] I’d never experienced antisemitism growing up, so the first time that this vicious verbal abuse came out of Farage’s mouth was deeply shocking. But I wasn’t his only target. I’d hear him calling other students ‘Paki’ or ‘Wog’, and urging them to ‘go home’. I tried to ignore him, but it was humiliating. It was shaming. This kind of abuse cuts through to the core of your identity.”
Anthony Butler
“Peter Ettedgui’s recollections of Nigel Farage’s naked racism and antisemitism in his schooldays left me with a sense of deep regret. A contemporary and classmate of Farage, I clearly recall him relentlessly hectoring and bullying Ettedgui with shouts of “stupid yid” in the playground. Peter was a small, rather shy and sensitive boy, and Nigel was a physical coward who could easily have been silenced.
“But I do not recall anyone doing so […] If he will accept it, I apologise wholeheartedly to Peter Ettedgui.”
Jean-Pierre Lihou
“[Farage] used to say things like, you know, ‘Jude’, to Peter, which is the German for Jew, in the way it was said in the 1930s, a long ‘u’ in a menacing way, you know? It’s pretty awful.
“Farage used to say things like ‘Hitler was right’ and ‘gas em’, you know, that sort of thing. But he also used to sing this song, which I later discovered was based on George Formby’s Bless Them All.
“He had a whole load of ‘lyrics’ on this which are pretty awful. I can remember it verbatim: ‘Gas em all, gas em all, into the chambers they crawl. We’ll gas all the paks, and we’ll gas all the yids, and we’ll gas all the coons and all their "$%&ing kids.’”
It goes on in much the same vein for 20 reports.
Peter Ettedgui
“[Farage] would sidle up to me and growl: ‘Hitler was right’ or ‘gas them’, sometimes adding a long hiss to simulate the sound of the gas showers […] I’d never experienced antisemitism growing up, so the first time that this vicious verbal abuse came out of Farage’s mouth was deeply shocking. But I wasn’t his only target. I’d hear him calling other students ‘Paki’ or ‘Wog’, and urging them to ‘go home’. I tried to ignore him, but it was humiliating. It was shaming. This kind of abuse cuts through to the core of your identity.”
Anthony Butler
“Peter Ettedgui’s recollections of Nigel Farage’s naked racism and antisemitism in his schooldays left me with a sense of deep regret. A contemporary and classmate of Farage, I clearly recall him relentlessly hectoring and bullying Ettedgui with shouts of “stupid yid” in the playground. Peter was a small, rather shy and sensitive boy, and Nigel was a physical coward who could easily have been silenced.
“But I do not recall anyone doing so […] If he will accept it, I apologise wholeheartedly to Peter Ettedgui.”
Jean-Pierre Lihou
“[Farage] used to say things like, you know, ‘Jude’, to Peter, which is the German for Jew, in the way it was said in the 1930s, a long ‘u’ in a menacing way, you know? It’s pretty awful.
“Farage used to say things like ‘Hitler was right’ and ‘gas em’, you know, that sort of thing. But he also used to sing this song, which I later discovered was based on George Formby’s Bless Them All.
“He had a whole load of ‘lyrics’ on this which are pretty awful. I can remember it verbatim: ‘Gas em all, gas em all, into the chambers they crawl. We’ll gas all the paks, and we’ll gas all the yids, and we’ll gas all the coons and all their "$%&ing kids.’”
It goes on in much the same vein for 20 reports.
danjuno
Cole Phelps, Badge 1247
In addition to what Senethro and Samson have said, comparing people to something that causes cancer is certainly an interesting thing to say.
Similar threads
