2020 US Election (Part 3)

[Cloud_Strife]

Here:

I mean, I live in a country with a minority government: in their past five iterations in government, one was unelected outright (they toppled another party's administration), the next one got there with 22% of the vote, the next with ~45%, the next with a suspect-yet-mythological 54%, and currently with 48%, all thanks to electoral alchemy and an actual coup d'état. Going by my experience at least, please no, man, don't even joke about it.

Ah apologies, wasn't trying to joke about it

 

[Birdjaguar]

In scathing opinion, federal judge dismisses Trump campaign lawsuit in Pennsylvania

A lawsuit brought by President Trump’s campaign that sought to block the certification of Pennsylvania’s election results was dismissed by a federal judge on Saturday evening.

U.S. District Judge Matthew W. Brann granted a request from Pennsylvania Secretary of State Kathy Boockvar to dismiss the suit, which alleged that Republicans had been illegally disadvantaged because some counties allowed voters to fix errors on their mail ballots.

Rudolph W. Giuliani, Trump’s attorney, personally took charge of the case and appeared at a hearing in Williamsport, Pa., Tuesday in an attempt to justify it.

In his order, Brann wrote that Trump’s campaign had used “strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations” in its effort to throw out millions of votes.

“In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state,” Brann wrote.

Trump was beaten in Pennsylvania by President-elect Joe Biden.

Trump just keeps on "winning"!

From the ruling:

In other words, Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. That has not happened. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more. At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted. Therefore, I grant Defendants’ motions and dismiss Plaintiffs’ action with prejudice.

 

[Estebonrober]

Here:

I mean, I live in a country with a minority government: in their past five iterations in government, one was unelected outright (they toppled another party's administration), the next one got there with 22% of the vote, the next with ~45%, the next with a suspect-yet-mythological 54%, and currently with 48%, all thanks to electoral alchemy and an actual coup d'état. Going by my experience at least, please no, man, don't even joke about it.

Ah apologies, wasn't trying to joke about it

He was talking to me I think and in regards to that my take is that we are going to need something extraordinary to kill the EC and trump trying to use it to usurp the voting population would help. He is incompetent enough and not popular enough to pull off a fascist like takeover so I feel like now is the time. Admittedly this is a little "looking for the silver-lining" thing.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm sure that if Sydney Powell showed us her evidence that Hugo Chavez was involved, we would all be convinced and give Trump his four more years.

 

[Patine]

He was talking to me I think and in regards to that my take is that we are going to need something extraordinary to kill the EC and trump trying to use it to usurp the voting population would help. He is incompetent enough and not popular enough to pull off a fascist like takeover so I feel like now is the time. Admittedly this is a little "looking for the silver-lining" thing.

For crying out loud! Trump is NOT a Fascist! He is something monstrous and horrid, and something that is downright socio-political poison, but it's a NEW movement, with different beliefs, goals, and tactics, from a different context, and labeling him (or anyone else where it is not appropriate or applicable) a "Fascist," or any such label, disingenuously and just to invoke it's baggage, and insisting on sticking to that term despite being shown repeatedly the grossly flawed way of thinking it is, and insisting, even aggressively, others accept such counter-productive terminology, is ALSO socio-political poison! As I say, perspective and proportion, please!

 

[KaibaCorp]

The word fascist is a meme now.

 

[Patine]

The word fascist is a meme now.

Only when used by those who obviously aren't qualified in education to apply such terms responsibly.

 

[Mouthwash]

Can anyone provide a convincing refutation of this, on whether there was election fraud in Pennsylvania? I'm not going all in on the idea of a stolen election, but I'd just like to know what I might be missing from the other side.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Can anyone provide a convincing refutation of this, on whether there was election fraud in Pennsylvania? I'm not going all in on the idea of a stolen election, but I'd just like to know what I might be missing from the other side.

"Lies, damned lies and statistics."

There wasn't any. I'll see if I can find something on this specifically.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Oh, your source is revolver.news that is a far right web news site devoted to Trump. Like him, they just lie.

 

[Patine]

Oh, your source is revolver.news that is a far right web news site devoted to Trump. Like him, they just lie.

I'm wondering where the honest, reliable, respectable, minimal-possible-bias, highbrow American-based news sources of any sort are nowadays. I can't seem to find them - and not for lack of trying.

 

[Mouthwash]

Oh, your source is revolver.news that is a far right web news site devoted to Trump. Like him, they just lie.

I'd still be interested in an examination of these claims, rather than a presumption that everything they say is false. Even liars use the truth, and the best liars almost never use anything else.

 

[Patine]

I'd still be interested in an examination of these claims, rather than a presumption that everything they say is false. Even liars use the truth, and the best liars almost never use anything else.

Count Dooku: "What if I were to tell you that the Republic had come under the control of a Dark Lord of the Sith named Darth Sidious."

Obi-Wan Kenobi: "You're lying."

Yoda, much later, in retrospect on Dooku's statement: "Of the Dark Side he is now. Lies and deception are his way."

-Star Wars, Episode II, Attack of the Clones.

 

[Naskra]

Months have passed since DeMuro was convicted of ballot-stuffing in Philly. The conspiracy charge was bogus; he acted alone; it was just a personal hobby. Let it go.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'm wondering where the honest, reliable, respectable, minimal-possible-bias, highbrow American-based news sources of any sort are nowadays. I can't seem to find them - and not for lack of trying.

If you stay away from the editorial pages and screaming headlines, you can find good reporting in the print editions of the WSJ and NYT.

 

[KaibaCorp]

Oh, your source is revolver.news that is a far right web news site devoted to Trump. Like him, they just lie.

What a refutation. Keep to those totally unbiased sources like WP and Theweek lol.

 

[Zardnaar]

What a refutation. Keep to those totally unbiased sources like WP and Theweek lol.

Reuters, BBC and RNZ.

American news not great.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I'd still be interested in an examination of these claims, rather than a presumption that everything they say is false. Even liars use the truth, and the best liars almost never use anything else.

I've been looking and what I've seen is a few pro Trump news sites proclaiming the same issue. No actual evidence is being presented, Just a claim of fraud. The same claims were made in Michigan but when the evidence was presented it turned out that the statistical anomalies were all from Minnesota and they all used bad data. This looks like more of the same. I'm sure if the data is good, Trump's lawyers will jump at the chance to use it. Trump's cases mostly fall apart because there is no data to support their claims. The fact that Trump is not using this information to press his case is pretty good evidence that it is bogus.

EDIT: If you actually read through the entire revolver article, their use of statistics to draw conclusions gets very sketchy at times. They will use the 66% split between 3 votes (2 for Biden and 1 for Trump) and compare that with a 150 vote sample that is 98% for Biden and say that the 3 vote anomaly shows fraud in the original 150 vote count.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Mouthwash's article is actually self-refuting. Here are the weasel words in its opening sentence

We find considerable evidence consistent with the possibility of electoral fraud in vote counts in Montgomery County, PA.

First, that shows that they went in with a preconceived idea of what they wanted to find, electoral fraud. But the crucial fact is this: they don't find evidence of fraud, they find evidence consistent with the possibility of fraud. Do you want to know what is evidence of the possibility of fraud? An election having happened. When someone proposes to provide you evidence of fraud having happened, then you can pay attention.

 

[Estebonrober]

Can anyone provide a convincing refutation of this, on whether there was election fraud in Pennsylvania? I'm not going all in on the idea of a stolen election, but I'd just like to know what I might be missing from the other side.

Yes very simple reply. You have no actual evidence of fraud, just a feeling of fraud which means less than nothing. Without evidence you look petty and stupid bringing it up as an actual claim of fraud trying to overturn an election that you lost in tons of ways not jsut here with this batch of ballots. Never mind the fact that none of this addresses why they would not jsut steal the senate or lose house seats if they were going all in on fraud.

Also in all of election history no massive fraud case has even been proven as far as I know in the modern age. I'm less clear before that, but fraud back in the Tammany hall days was more like bullying voters into voting one way or another not actually faking ballots.

I know conservative reactionaries are all about their feelings but this is pathetic.