2020 US Election (Part One)

[Lexicus]

Well, you obviously haven't given up, so wouldn't you rather at least try to slow down authoritarianism?

Well yeah which is why I'm like no to Biden

 

[Phrossack]

Well yeah which is why I'm like no to Biden

I don't like him either, which is why I won't vote for him in the primary, but I'd vote for any Dem over Trump. You say you're worried people like Biden exacerbating the causes of Trump, but I'd argue four more years of Trump would open the gates to even more Trumpism than a Biden win would. Hypernormalization, new generations of Republicans growing up only ever knowing the party of Trump, and a massive rightward shift of the Overton Window guarantee that.

 

[Lexicus]

The next generation of Republicans are currently growing up to be hideous lying Nazis, there's no stopping that by electing a Democrat in 2020.

Incidentally here's a video of Biden reminiscing about his relationship with Strom Thurmond:

 

[Phrossack]

The next generation of Republicans are currently growing up to be hideous lying Nazis, there's no stopping that by electing a Democrat in 2020.

Incidentally here's a video of Biden reminiscing about his relationship with Strom Thurmond:

It won't stop it, no. But those Republicans will have a much easier time winning with an entirely Republican judiciary and a Republican-gerrymandered country, and letting Trump win will ensure that. Your point, as I see it, is that a Biden win perpetuates the systems that creates Trumps, but my point is that a Trump win would do the same, only even more intensely.

 

[Narz]

I must be in a bubble because I know literally no one who likes/supports Biden and everything I read/see about him in my newsfeed/social media is negative.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I must be in a bubble because I know literally no one who likes/supports Biden and everything I read/see about him in my newsfeed/social media is negative.

And yet the Democrats will run him. After all, how else are the Democrats going to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory?

 

[Traitorfish]

It is worth stressing, I think, that there is a difference between backing somebody who will not do as much good as they could, and backing somebody who will not do as much bad as they might. Politics doesn't end with elections, least of all with presidential elections, and if you vote for a "lesser evil" it must be with the clear intention of opposing them once they assume office. Even if only for the sake of your conscience.

 

[Berzerker]

Biden's way out in front with older Dems and he has more appeal for Repubs unhappy with Trump

If its between Biden and Sanders I'd feel the Bern, but Warren is splitting the progressive base with him giving Biden an advantage in early primaries. They need to figure something out asap.

 

[Takhisis]

I'm biased

Well I never

 

[Hygro]

It is worth stressing, I think, that there is a difference between backing somebody who will not do as much good as they could, and backing somebody who will not do as much bad as they might. Politics doesn't end with elections, least of all with presidential elections, and if you vote for a "lesser evil" it must be with the clear intention of opposing them once they assume office. Even if only for the sake of your conscience.

I think you should pull people towards you not push them away.

 

[Socrates99]

I must be in a bubble because I know literally no one who likes/supports Biden and everything I read/see about him in my newsfeed/social media is negative.

Me neither. I think the polls that have him in front are oversampling the 55 and older crowd. I don't know a single person irl that supports the guy. Then again I'm in the Rust Belt and Biden style Democrats are really unpopular here.

Biden's way out in front with older Dems and he has more appeal for Repubs unhappy with Trump

If its between Biden and Sanders I'd feel the Bern, but Warren is splitting the progressive base with him giving Biden an advantage in early primaries. They need to figure something out asap.

I think Biden has plenty of competition for the third way vote. I wouldn't underestimate Kamala or Mayor Pete.

I agree that Warren's surge could undermine Bernie but at least Warren's surging for all the right reasons.

 

[Narz]

I think you should pull people towards you not push them away.

What?

 

[Hygro]

What?

It’s something Republicans understand that gives them great success.

The left wing is its own worst enemy.

 

[BenitoChavez]

I'm in the Rust Belt and Biden style Democrats are really unpopular here.

According to the media, it's the opposite. Biden is so strong in the polls because of his appeal in the rust belt.

 

[Phrossack]

It is worth stressing, I think, that there is a difference between backing somebody who will not do as much good as they could, and backing somebody who will not do as much bad as they might. Politics doesn't end with elections, least of all with presidential elections, and if you vote for a "lesser evil" it must be with the clear intention of opposing them once they assume office. Even if only for the sake of your conscience.

Yes, we'd have to hold any centrist/conservative Dem president's feet to the fire. But the benefit of electing a Democrat is that they have to listen to left-leaning constituents at least sometimes for fear of losing vital support. Trump can safely ignore and trample on anyone not in his cult without consequence.

 

[Traitorfish]

Yes, we'd have to hold any centrist/conservative Dem president's feet to the fire. But the benefit of electing a Democrat is that they have to listen to left-leaning constituents at least sometimes for fear of losing vital support. Trump can safely ignore and trample on anyone not in his cult without consequence.

No, you'd have to hold a progressive president's feet to the fire. A centrist Democrat is simply your enemy. Or, at least, he's not your friend. Just because he's on the same party ticket as your preferred candidate doesn't mean he's on the same side. That's exactly the confusion that got the Republicans a syphilitic god-emperor when they were supposed to get a dough-faced business conservative.

I think you should pull people towards you not push them away.

What is realistically more likely to pull a Biden presidency to the left, resistance or compliance?

 

[Ironsided]

they have to listen to left-leaning constituents at least sometimes for fear of losing vital support.

How do you tie this idea to your strategy of always support the democrats no matter what?

 

[Phrossack]

No, you'd have to hold a progressive president's feet to the fire. A centrist Democrat is simply your enemy. Or, at least, he's not your friend. Just because he's on the same party ticket as your preferred candidate doesn't mean he's on the same side. That's exactly the confusion that got the Republicans a syphilitic god-emperor when they were supposed to get a dough-faced business conservative.


What is realistically more likely to pull a Biden presidency to the left, resistance or compliance?

I'm saying center right Democrats can't be trusted to push progressive policies without extensive pressure and threats omof withdrawn support from their constituents, and that candidates like Warren and Sanders are more likely to do so without such pressure. How exactly is that not what you're saying?

How do you tie this idea to your strategy of always support the democrats no matter what?

Because there's a difference between the election and the tenure in office.

When voting, vote Democrat. Once the Democrat is in power, Democratic voters can pressure them to pursue their policies by threats of withdrawn support in legislation and future primaries. If a Republican wins, Democrats are powerless and voiceless and no amount of "resistance" is going to change the Republicans' minds since they never expected Democratic support anyway.

Or you could just sit in a corner, pout, refuse to participate, and hope that the situation will just somehow resolve itself...

 

[Socrates99]

According to the media, it's the opposite. Biden is so strong in the polls because of his appeal in the rust belt.

That's because people in the media are idiots. They think Biden being a little more conservative will reel in independent voters but independents aren't independent because they fall in the middle. They're independent because they hate the two parties. Bernie beat Clinton in Michigan and he polls better V Trump than Biden in the three states Democrats can't lose if they want to beat Trump. Three states Obama and Trump both won. Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.

Biden might beat Trump but a progressive is a more sure thing.

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm saying center right Democrats can't be trusted to push progressive policies without extensive pressure and threats omof withdrawn support from their constituents, and that candidates like Warren and Sanders are more likely to do so without such pressure. How exactly is that not what you're saying?

I'm saying that centre-right Democrats can be trusted to push regressive policies. They simply won't push as hard as Republicans. Any progressives policies are going to be forced upon them, unwillingly, exactly as they would be forced upon Republicans. We don't have to regard ourselves as part of their coalition, or treat the integrity of that coalition as an imperative. We make private electoral pacts in the voting booth, but that's far as it goes. As soon as the election is done, people like Biden reoccupy their natural and inevitable place as enemies of progress, and must be combatted as such.