2020 US Election (Part One)

[rah]

Maybe a FDR, JFK or even Reagan. Trump. not a chance. Unless we're looking for someone to motivate people to suck on tailpipes to resolve the problem.

 

[Lexicus]

I will emigrate if The D’ump is reelected.

Same, I think.

 

[cardgame]

I've looked into it a little bit and basically a college degree is mandatory to emigrate, which I currently lack. So, finance that with our predatory student loans system, move abroad, never pay it back. Feasible?

 

[Berzerker]

Trump was able to get his stuff thru the senate with a slight majority, so maybe filibusters are limited to certain matters

 

[Lexicus]

So, finance that with our predatory student loans system, move abroad, never pay it back. Feasible?

Doubtful. A US under second Trump term would likely be pretty gung-ho about getting everyone to pay its banks forever.

You might be able to get a degree from community college at little or not cost.

I have the advantage of career-related connections in a few other countries who could conceivably find me a job in my field somewhere.

 

[metalhead]

Alright, I don't dispute this, but why does it mean that Sanders' agenda is DOA if he doesn't support ending the filibuster? I don't believe the Republicans will oppose "centrist" legislation any less than "democratic socialist" legislation - the opposition to Obama and his agenda seems to have made that clear - so if the Senate wants to pass anything after 2020, they will need to get rid of the filibuster regardless of whether Bernie supports the idea or not.

It's DOA if the filibuster doesn't end. It's pretty safe to say that Senate leadership doesn't want to end the filibuster. The difference between ending the filibuster and passing progressive legislation, and progressive reform stalling in the Senate, is likely going to be the President pressuring the Senate to end the filibuster and pass the reforms.

Do you really think, absent pressure from the president, Chuck Schumer is going to end the filibuster and pass M4A? I sure as hell don't. So the next president has to be willing to twist those arms as hard as necessary to get it done.

This:

If they're not going to support the legislation then no amount of pressure from the White House will make them end the filibuster to pass the legislation.

is plain wrong. Presidents convince their party to pass big stuff they don't want to pass, if they're good at their jobs. Obama did it with ACA. Johnson with the Civil Rights bills. They can be made to pass things they wouldn't pass on their own.

 

[Lexicus]

The difference between ending the filibuster and passing progressive legislation, and progressive reform stalling in the Senate, is likely going to be the President pressuring the Senate to end the filibuster and pass the reforms.

I dunno, I guess I just fundamentally disagree with this, I see the barriers ahead for progressive legislation in radically different terms than you appear to and I do not envision the White House pushing to end the filibuster making any significant difference at all.

 

[Takhisis]

*prepares to host half a dozen hungry graduates with CFC citizenship in glorious tropical paradise*

 

[metalhead]

I dunno, I guess I just fundamentally disagree with this, I see the barriers ahead for progressive legislation in radically different terms than you appear to and I do not envision the White House pushing to end the filibuster making any significant difference at all.

So then how does it happen, without ending the filibuster? Dems manage 60 Senate seats? Emergency declaration? Blood in the streets?

 

[Lexicus]

So then how does it happen, without ending the filibuster? Dems manage 60 Senate seats? Blood in the streets?

Okay, just so we're clear. I'm in favor of ending the filibuster! I don't think there's a chance of passing anything let alone legislation that entails "the transformation of this country's political and economic life" without ending the filibuster! I even called Bernie's opposition to ending the filibuster, if such opposition exists, "dumb". But I hunted up an article about what Bernie said on the subject, and found this:

"No, I'm not crazy about getting rid of the filibuster," Sanders replied. He went on to say, "the problem is, people often talk about the lack of comity, but the real issue is you have a system in Washington that is dominated by wealthy campaign contributors."

To me that indicates that he is not unwilling to get rid of the filibuster, but what I said before was accurate: he would prefer to try to expand the possibilities of electoral politics so that ending the filibuster isn't necessary. If that doesn't happen, I would guess he'll be perfectly fine with ending the filibuster to get some things passed, even if he isn't crazy about the idea. But his first move is always going to be "political revolution," so that such procedural trench warfare is rendered unnecessary.

In any case, what I've been arguing all along is not that he can pass his agenda without getting rid of the filibuster, but that his position on the filibuster will not have much impact on whether it is, in fact, ended. Additionally, if what you say about Schumer is correct, then the ideological opposition of Democratic Senators to his agenda is the real problem that he needs to solve, not the existence of the filibuster.

Is this all clear? If we're assuming a degree of Democratic ideological and practical unity such that they are united around Sanders' major policy goals to begin with, then I think the idea that public pressure from the White House will be the decisive factor in ending the filibuster is totally wrong!

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

I think the thing about the filibuster is you can engineer ending it in a way that is agreeable to more people than you can, say, the GND. The latter is purely a Dem thing, and even then, there will be a few laggard moderates who don't get behind it. The "keep the filibuster" camp is mostly a structural/traditional one, and given that those are A) entirely crumbling around us and B) probably a lot of people from various ideologies would love the chance to not have to jump 60 votes just like both parties now LOVE the idea of just appointing a gajillion judges means that a president applying pressure, or even a decent amount of congresspeople, can probably get it killed. Voters genuinely don't really give a crap about it being axed for judicial nominees anyways (much less are aware it once existed), so all you probably need is a president to convince a few dinosaurs it's mostly dead anyways and there's no reason to keep it choking along.

Edit: I'm not even sure, given how Trump's approval rating cratered during the shutdown, you couldn't just scare senators into getting it done if facing another shutdown.

 

[metalhead]

In any case, what I've been arguing all along is not that he can pass his agenda without getting rid of the filibuster, but that his position on the filibuster will not have much impact on whether it is, in fact, ended.

Why wouldn't it? Presidents have enormous influence over what their party's members do in Congress. Why does that influence suddenly stop when it comes to convincing leadership to end the filibuster?

 

[Lexicus]

Presidents have enormous influence over what their party's members do in Congress.

Well, maybe you're right. I suppose if it comes down to it, you'll end up being proven right.

 

[Berzerker]

Harris and Warren support reparations for black Americans... Thats gonna hurt them.

 

[Takhisis]

It will hurt Obama politically, I suppose?

 

[onejayhawk]

It will hurt Obama politically, I suppose?

Doubtful. Michelle will likely not run.

J

 

[Zkribbler]

Just watched Joe Kennedy on the Van Jones' show. He's noi running.

 

[Kyriakos]

20 years later, in a forum much like cfc but about a game where you control wooly animals that shoot larger wooly animals out of massive canons:

-the gop candidate is pure filth, no way you can prefer him to the dem.
-relax, shill; gop hopeful trumbama has it in the bag. Bushton, on the other hand, will remain in the gutter where he belongs.
-trombama was 't my first choice; i voted for clint.

Plus ca change...

 

[Takhisis]

Bernie Sanders' manifesto:

Spoiler :

It's time to complete the revolution we started

One week ago, when we launched our campaign for president, I asked people from across the country to sign up to be part of an unprecedented grassroots campaign. The response from the American people has been historic.

In six days, more than one million people have answered the call. Americans from every single congressional district in the country have signed up to help lead a movement that is not only about defeating Donald Trump, the most dangerous president in modern American history, but about creating a government based on the principles of economic, social, racial and environmental justice.

This task will not be easy. Today, we have more income and wealth inequality than at any time since the 1920s, and the three wealthiest Americans own more wealth than the bottom half of our country.

Despite relatively low unemployment, millions of people work multiple jobs because they earn starvation wages, 34 million Americans have no health insurance, and we pay the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs.

Shamefully, we treat our most vulnerable people with disdain. We have the highest rate of childhood poverty of almost any major nation and a dysfunctional and unaffordable childcare system. While many Republicans want to cut Social Security, about half of older Americans have no retirement savings.

And, in the midst of all of that, we have a president who is a pathological liar, a fraud, racist, sexist, xenophobe, religious bigot and someone who is moving this country in an authoritarian direction.

To be successful in creating a government and economy that works for the many, we will have to take on powerful special interests that dominate our economic and political life – Wall Street, the health insurance companies, the drug companies, the fossil fuel industry, the military-industrial-complex, the private-prison industry and multinational corporations. These special interests have extraordinary power, and they will spend enormous sums of money to maintain the status quo and their wealth.

The only way we will defeat Donald Trump and the special interests that support him is with a grassroots movement – the likes of which has never been seen in American history. We must stand together – women and men, black, white, Latino, Native American, Asian American, gay and straight, young and old, native born and immigrant – to address the challenges we face as a nation.

At a time when our infrastructure is crumbling and we have an affordable housing crisis, we can create millions of good paying jobs rebuilding our country. Together, we can raise the minimum wage to a living wage of $15 an hour, provide pay equity for women and guarantee all workers paid family and medical leave.

We cannot afford to wait any longer to address the existential threat of climate change. We must transform our energy system away from fossil fuels toward energy efficiency and sustainable energy, creating millions of jobs in the process.

While we spend almost twice as much per capita on health care as any nation, our health outcomes are worse and life expectancy is in decline. It is time for us to join every other major country and guarantee health care to all people as a right, not a privilege, through a Medicare-for-all program.

Unbelievably, Americans are saddled with $1.5tn in student loan debt and many young people can’t afford the cost of college. We must lower the egregious level of student debt and make public colleges and universities tuition-free.

The United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world and African Americans are incarcerated at more than five times the rate of white people. Our job is to end the destructive “war on drugs,” eliminate private prisons and cash bail and bring about major police department reform.

Instead of demonizing undocumented immigrants as our current president has done, we should fight for comprehensive immigration reform, a path toward citizenship, immediate legal status for the young people eligible for the Daca program and a humane policy for those at the border who seek asylum.

At a time when women’s rights are under attack at the local, state and federal level, we must defend a woman’s right to control her own body.

To confront the epidemic of gun violence, we need to take on the NRA, expand background checks, end the gun show loophole and ban the sale and distribution of assault weapons.

And finally, we must end Trump’s support for authoritarian leaders. We need a foreign policy which focuses on democracy, human rights, world peace, global wealth inequality, climate change and massive corporate tax evasion.

In 2016, our campaign began the political revolution. The ideas we fought for, which then were considered “radical” or “extreme,” are now supported by a majority of Americans. Now, it is time to defeat Donald Trump, complete that revolution and implement the vision we fought for.

Retrieved from the Grauniad

btw there's a new unauthorised comic by devil's Due Comics featuring AOC.

 

[onejayhawk]

btw there's a new unauthorised comic by devil's Due Comics featuring AOC.

Freshman Farce might be a better name.

Still, AOC is just a symptom of a deeper divide in the party. When the Republicans went through this a little over a decade ago, they were hammered in a couple of elections.

J