2020 US Election (Part One)

[Gori the Grey]

, in 2154 people will be trashing her because the terrorist who just blew up a bunch of people was a former Syrian or Libyan child refugee.

That'll be some old honkin' terrorist!

 

[Takhisis]

See post #2931, Gori.

 

[onejayhawk]

Because race proved critical in the election?

Minorities proved critical. Trump improved compared to either McCain or Romney.

Trump won the white working class and that's how he won the election.

u are spouting the Democratic line which is not born out by the numbers. Even a small Hispanic shift toward HRC could have swung Florida. Black pullback in Pennsylvania was larger than the margin of victory.

Nah, they're already on to AOC.

Who cares? AOC is the Democrat's version of Dan Quayle, ie a gaff machine and source of humor. No one that I know takes she seriously.

J

 

[Gori the Grey]

Who cares? AOC is the Democrat's version of Dan Quayle, ie a gaff machine and source of humor. No one that I know takes she seriously.

FOX cannot stop talking about she. I know you don't watch TV anymore, so them are not anyone you know. But them can't stop talking about she.

u are spouting the Democratic line which is not born out by the numbers.

It's borne out by the polling data I cited. The working class that turned out for Trump was the white working class. Hence Sommer's correction of your earlier statement.

 

[Berzerker]

That'll be some old honkin' terrorist!

hehe...okay, 2054

 

[onejayhawk]

FOX cannot stop talking about she. I know you don't watch TV anymore, so them are not anyone you know. But them can't stop talking about she.

It's borne out by the polling data I cited. The working class that turned out for Trump was the white working class. Hence Sommer's correction of your earlier statement.

I cannot comment on Fox other than to say CNN could not stop talking about Dan Quayle either. I know that AOC is the butt of jokes more than the object of criticism with conservatives I know.

Try that white working class and you may have something. The simple fact is that if Hillary Clinton had done as well with minorities as Obama, Trump would not be President. She couldn't even do better with Hispanics, supposedly the minority Trump hated and who outnumber blacks more than 2-1. The claims of racism were and are political spin and worth what spin is usually worth.

J

 

[Broken_Erika]

hehe...okay, 2054

In 2154, the terrorist will be a Centaurian spy with a fusion bomb in his ribcage.

 

[cardgame]

I cannot comment on Fox other than to say CNN could not stop talking about Dan Quayle either. I know that AOC is the butt of jokes more than the object of criticism with conservatives I know.

The only jokes I've seen about AOC (and I've seen plenty) have all been terrible strawmen. Fox and friends are focused on her so much because they're afraid of her.

 

[Ironsided]

When it comes to voting in national elections, if I cared about handouts I'd examine the Democrat candidate pool for who's offering the most. Currently on the offer is student loan erasure, free basic income, free medicare, free college, free citizenship. And the standard package on the boilerplate: free food, free monthly checks, free housing, free phones, free needles, free schools, free retirement money. I care about Western civilization instead, so I pass the Democrats by in favor of issues you have appropriately tied to "identity as an American citizen." The odd thing is that liberals do not often vote for whoever promises the most handouts, either, but they seem to expect everyone else does.

It’s not about handouts. It never was. (There is absolutely nothing wrong with handouts, compassion and bleeding hearts – that’s just human decency - but that’s not what this is about.) It’s about stopping robbery. Robbery within the community. Unjust, low key, constant, inescapable, legally constructed, state sponsored, privately owned robbery that you can’t see. 30% of American children growing up in poverty (relative, OECD) while you have three (3!) people with more assets than 150 000 000 people is pretty solid support for this robbery hypothesis. You think they worked for it? Earned it fair and square? Republicans and Trump unsurprisingly wants that.
Here’s the real kicker, the Dems do too, judging by their actions or rather inactions in the last 50 years – at least they don’t mind it much. These 30% kids btw are not starving or asking for handouts. But they deserve to have the same chance as other kids playing on the same field - and they need to be able to play by the same rules. Fine, make life a damned contest if you so desire but at least make it a fair one. If not - when kids grow and have to care for themselves we will still have to pay for robbing them of their decency and future; be it your phone, your car or your face. Guns or no guns. Police state or not. We’ve had it all in “western civilization”. You get unjust - you get envy and crime and payback and revolts and wars. That’s European history 101 in a nutshell. And that’s how “western civilization” has worked since before Alexander the Great. It’s not that much to care for as it’s an area to improve on.

 

[cardgame]

You like insurance, don't you, Squidward? Tristan? Think of everything Ironsided is describing as guillotine insurance.

 

[Ironsided]

the 2154 Republican campaign slogan: Her Emails!

You know what I would like to see from you Erika? Some original thoughs. What is your take on the current crop of contenders for the American presidency in 2020?

 

[Sommerswerd]

Try that white working class and you may have something.

Huh?? We did "try that". You said:

the hero of the working man.

I said:

white "working man", don't forget the "white" part

and Gori said:

Trump won the white working class

So what are you talking about? We already "have something", to use your phrase. Also...

No one that I know takes she seriously.

You don't say? LOLs. QED.

 

[Kyriakos]

I like AOC, cause she acts and looks human, for a change, and isn't 5 million years old either. I hope she gets nominated and wins in the future campaigns.
After all, the new world needs Cortez

 

[rah]

Its relevant if her supporters insist on criticizing other people... But we can focus on Biden, he voted to invade Iraq too and it doesn't appear he objected to Libya and Syria. Throw in his role in the mass incarceration of Americans over the last few decades and Trump's First Step bill freeing some of them and it'll be fun watching Democrats lecture the rest of us about the clear moral choice like they did with Hillary.

Once again. Hillary was never president. Presidents set foreign policy. Free free to criticize Obama. Vice presidents don't set foreign policy. Their one role is to support the president even when they don't agree with them. You don't hear democrats criticizing Pence for his foreign policy, because guess why, he's not the president. There are many things to criticize Hilary for, but doing so for foreign policy is just silly since she was never president. Congressmen just represent their constituents (or they're supposed to) and for that vote that's what Hillary did.

 

[Tristan_C]

It’s not about handouts. It never was. (There is absolutely nothing wrong with handouts, compassion and bleeding hearts – that’s just human decency - but that’s not what this is about.) It’s about stopping robbery. Robbery within the community. Unjust, low key, constant, inescapable, legally constructed, state sponsored, privately owned robbery that you can’t see. 30% of American children growing up in poverty (relative, OECD) while you have three (3!) people with more assets than 150 000 000 people is pretty solid support for this robbery hypothesis. You think they worked for it? Earned it fair and square? Republicans and Trump unsurprisingly wants that.
Here’s the real kicker, the Dems do too, judging by their actions or rather inactions in the last 50 years – at least they don’t mind it much. These 30% kids btw are not starving or asking for handouts. But they deserve to have the same chance as other kids playing on the same field - and they need to be able to play by the same rules. Fine, make life a damned contest if you so desire but at least make it a fair one. If not - when kids grow and have to care for themselves we will still have to pay for robbing them of their decency and future; be it your phone, your car or your face. Guns or no guns. Police state or not. We’ve had it all in “western civilization”. You get unjust - you get envy and crime and payback and revolts and wars. That’s European history 101 in a nutshell. And that’s how “western civilization” has worked since before Alexander the Great. It’s not that much to care for as it’s an area to improve on.

Lopsided distribution of wealth and power has existed since Sumer. I don't see the decency in wealth transfers. Decent behavior is a choice, taxes are not. I'm especially pissed-off by politicians and factions that appeal to your decency on this account. You pay the taxes, they get the credit. They hold the parties, make the connections, and amass all the incidental wealth and rewards that the power to allocate your money conveys.

And what about the effects on poverty. We do not have robust data about poverty from before the 60s, and none from before the 40s, but wealth transfer does not appear to have had a significant long term impact on poverty in the post-war era.

Handouts are only truly effective at creating special interest voting blocs. Even though they have no strong performance history to boast of, it is virtually impossible to make alterations to laws funneling money to people. That makes the laws effectively more binding than the constitution. “When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic,” etc., etc. How do people imagine that handing the elite more insidious tools, like the ability to redistribute your wealth while bludgeoning you with your own sense of decency, would change such a paradigm?

For its part Western civilization has produced too many unique, good phenomena to name. I vote for it in every election.

 

[Ironsided]

Lopsided distribution of wealth and power has existed since Sumer. I don't see the decency in wealth transfers. Decent behavior is a choice, taxes are not. I'm especially pissed-off by politicians and factions that appeal to your decency on this account. You pay the taxes, they get the credit. They hold the parties, make the connections, and amass all the incidental wealth and rewards that the power to allocate your money conveys..

Exactly right. That’s a perfectly good example of contemporary injustice and the rightful anger that comes with it. But it is not particular to taxes. Taxes are tied to legislation and a relatively transparent phenomenon (on the aggregate at least). Taxes are one of the few tools holding the local and national community together. Funding schooling, healthcare, infrastructure, security etc. And you as a citizen is a member of this community. I’m sure we are on the same page so far.

Here is where I’m not sure we agree: You see, I see the exact same phenomena of people lavishly spending and taking credit for other people’s work and value generated, lost and gained in the private sector. For example employer – employee, work put in and compensation gained. It’s the same thing only the transactions are far more obscure (unless collective agreements) and just as, if not more unfair to the individual than taxes ever be. Then you add the black markets and tax havens and you really have no trace of where the value we created went. In my book this is a far greater concern than public service with high level of taxes.

I view capital as a humanly constructed asset medium made exactly for the purpose to be funnelled around and to hopefully economically perform useful work and create value for the community. The question is not really if but about how and by whom? For example do you trust the Cock-brothers more than Bernie Sanders?

 

[onejayhawk]

Huh?? We did "try that". You said: I said: and Gori said:So what are you talking about? We already "have something", to use your phrase. Also... You don't say? LOLs. QED.

I like it. It makes more sense without the quotes.

Are you acknowledging that race was not a decisive factor? The facts clearly point that way but your previous statement gives pause.

J

 

[Lexicus]

The facts clearly point that way but your previous statement gives pause.

Which facts are those? Can the doctor feel them when he checks you for prostate cancer?

Moderator Action: Remember that this is a family friendly forum, please. --LM

 

[onejayhawk]

Which facts are those?

That has been covered twice already.

Trump did better among minorities than previous Republican candidates. In particular, he did better among Hispanics.

J

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

He did worse than McCain, who was a previous Republican candidate.