2020 US Election (Part One)

[Socrates99]

I think berserker is right about Kansas being the lowest consumer of fed spending per capita. The deep blue states also tend to pay more per capita to the federal government.

The thing that I found interesting while looking around is that the biggest donor states like Connecticut, California, Massachusetts, New Jersey, etc are blue and also have the highest GDP per capita, meaning more wealthy people live there. Kansas was number 50 in GDP per capita which means the tax experiment in Kansas was a flub.

Funnily enough, even the Laffer curve says there's a sweet spot for taxes. Kansas is way way off that.

 

[Berzerker]

I know we're not an economic powerhouse, but 50th? Cant be...


wait'll we start really fracking

 

[Birdjaguar]

I think berserker is right about Kansas being the lowest consumer of fed spending per capita. The deep blue states also tend to pay more per capita to the federal government.

The thing that I found interesting while looking around is that the biggest donor states like Connecticut, California, Massachusetts, New Jersey, etc are blue and also have the highest GDP per capita, meaning more wealthy people live there. Kansas was number 50 in GDP per capita which means the tax experiment in Kansas was a flub.

Well all that is going to change. Trump is forcing the USDA to move all its DC staff to the Kansas City (MO/KS) area. All those federal payroll dollars will be flowing.

 

[Berzerker]

Thats slimy, I heard about that

 

[Sommerswerd]

who do you think pays for the subsidies?

First of all, people need to pay in order to be subsidizing someone else. Kansas doesn't pay jack squeeze, because its too poor to do so.... too few residents and too low median income to be subsidizing anyone else... least of all California. Second, as @Lexicus repeatedly point out... the states don't really "pay for" anything anyway... taxes are more or less inflation control.

you guys were claiming Kansas is subsidized by other states but when you find out it aint true you change your argument.

Errrrrnt, wrong... There is no "you guys"... I'm not Tim. You're replying to me, not Tim. If you wanna keep ducking arguments directed at Republicans/Conservatives based on a claim that you're "not Republican" then dammit, stop being a hypocrite. I never made any of those claims you're referencing. I said that you were wrong to say Kansas was subsidizing California. Don't try to strawman me into Tim's argument to distract from defending your own flawed argument... it won't work. My argument has been consistent. Kansas does not subsidize California and nothing you've posted comes close to refuting that point... least of all your one source, which as I've said has little credibility given they are citing Rasmussen as if it was a reliable source.

 

[Imaus]

Well all that is going to change. Trump is forcing the USDA to move all its DC staff to the Kansas City (MO/KS) area. All those federal payroll dollars will be flowing.

You know what? That's fine. Not like DC isn't at risk of flooding anyway and a central positioning of federal agencies and resources helps the nation. We should had moved the Capital in 1876 or 1976 to keep up with the expansion.

 

[Estebonrober]

How long until Kansas gets corrupted by big government and turns blue do you think?

 

[Farm Boy]

@Sommerswerd Nope. I'll not have them. Public sector union member and all, they still suck butt chunks.

Right now they're thrilled with thier consumption based "inflation control (seriously, you need wiser citations(I'm well aware of the difference between state and federal taxes. Feels the same paying them.))" is going to be able to make the state richer by encouraging low income down state emigration while funding keeping down north suburban property taxes*. Spun with the typical flavor of horse **** of course.

*They are, on average, high. But then again, I don't have a lot of sympathy. That leads to relatively great discrepancy in localities. Lake County generally whines about 2.~%. They way they wind up divvying shares out this way I'm probably paying ~6% what I could actually get on the market, and school districts keep busing larger and larger rural routes to maintain quality. W/e. Color me supermajority jaded.

 

[Berzerker]

First of all, people need to pay in order to be subsidizing someone else. Kansas doesn't pay jack squeeze, because its too poor to do so.... too few residents and too low median income to be subsidizing anyone else... least of all California. Second, as @Lexicus repeatedly point out... the states don't really "pay for" anything anyway... taxes are more or less inflation control.

Thats right, taxes dont pay for anything... Hey everyone, good news. The country will get along just fine without our money. And what happens when inflation isn't controlled? Slaves were really poor so they couldn't subsidize anyone, right? No need for reparations. It doesn't matter if Kansas doesn't pay as much in taxes as a wealthy state, if its less dependent on federal dollars then its subsidizing that wealthier state.

Errrrrnt, wrong... There is no "you guys"... I'm not Tim. You're replying to me, not Tim. If you wanna keep ducking arguments directed at Republicans/Conservatives based on a claim that you're "not Republican" then dammit, stop being a hypocrite. I never made any of those claims you're referencing. I said that you were wrong to say Kansas was subsidizing California. Don't try to strawman me into Tim's argument to distract from defending your own flawed argument... it won't work. My argument has been consistent. Kansas does not subsidize California and nothing you've posted comes close to refuting that point... least of all your one source, which as I've said has little credibility given they are citing Rasmussen as if it was a reliable source.

I'm a hypocrite because I ducked an argument? Thats not hypocrisy, thats ducking an argument. And where did I do that? Rah posted a link showing Kansas gets subsidized and you said "Get off my teats you muther-effing freeloaders!!" But now you're not one of 'you guys'? So much for hypocrisy.

What did they cite Rasmussen for? A poll about public opinion, thats it. They didn't cite Rasmussen in their methodology or anything else, that was not a source for their study. You dismissed the study after looking closer and seeing the Rasmussen poll, but you didn't look close enough to figure out the Rasmussen poll was unrelated to their research. I already explained that and here you are repeating the same BS.

 

[mitsho]

Well all that is going to change. Trump is forcing the USDA to move all its DC staff to the Kansas City (MO/KS) area. All those federal payroll dollars will be flowing.

Decentralizing and spreading national agencies and other governmental institutions all over the country seems a real good idea. Making each region get a skin in the game instead of only Washington DC and surrounding regions profiting from what these government offices need makes a lot of sense. So let me ask: where's the problem?

 

[Estebonrober]

Decentralizing and spreading national agencies and other governmental institutions all over the country seems a real good idea. Making each region get a skin in the game instead of only Washington DC and surrounding regions profiting from what these government offices need makes a lot of sense. So let me ask: where's the problem?

Yea I support this too in principle, not sure how it actually plays out.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Rah posted a link showing Kansas gets subsidized and you said "Get off my teats you muther-effing freeloaders!!"

That went way over your head apparently Now who doesn't get a joke?

 

[Berzerker]

yes, it was a joke...and?

 

[Sommerswerd]

or?

 

[Berzerker]

or what?

you joked about Kansas free loading and called me a hypocrite for including you in the Kansas is free loading camp.

 

[Takhisis]

I wasn't a government employee and I am not any kind of employee as of now

Clearly this is discrimination against white people.

Nope... Horde all the way... For da buhning blade-dah!

Erm, have the blood elves rejoined Alleria (as they should) in the latest WoW patch?

The news really is getting completely played like a fiddle by Trump and his random racist rants and other assorted ridiculous tweets. We already know about Trump's racism and sexism. Him telling minority female members of Congress to "go back to Africa" adds nothing to that. But the issue that the news was previously focused on, which this outrage has supplanted, was of actual import, the census. What's worse, is that the census battle was already fully highlighting his racism, but on an actual issue of importance. Now that has been pushed aside for this less meaningful example of the same thing.

And back on topic, yes and no. This is about election and these Congresswomen (all female, all from racial minority groups) are being attacked and this might influence their campaign. Just as there was once a movement centred on ‘let's keep black people out of power’ I.e. birtherism, the Republicans are doing the same for Congress now. The 2020 election is not just for president and vice-president but also for legislators and governors and judges and prosecutors and sheriffs and various administrative agencies and other such appointments which, mostly uniquely to the US, are elected on whatever whim the electorate has at the moment. No blacks, women, Injuns, Spexicans and so on. It's about conserving as much power as possible.

And of course it does materialise in skewed census words, gerrymandering and disenfranchisement, but this part of political discourse is about implicitly legitimising such efforts.

 

[Tristan_C]

This state-by-state comparison doesn't enable us to draw any conclusions about who in each state is paying taxes and who is being subsidized. There is also no best-fit way to measure federal benefits, either to states or individuals; not all of the federal government's ongoing tasks (and in my opinion none of its most important ones) involve direct transfers of money to the states or to people.

 

[Berzerker]

If wealthier people lean Republican then Democrats shouldn't be complaining about free loaders

 

[Birdjaguar]

If wealthier people lean Republican then Democrats shouldn't be complaining about free loaders

??? Please explain or rewrite.

BTW, Trump supporters are mostly among the not wealthy.

 

[Berzerker]

Wealthier people pay more taxes, if they lean Republican then even blue states are being subsidized by Republicans