Amina (Warrior-Queen of Zazzau) - Leader Discussion

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I'd consider the Hausa to possibly be a Modern Age civ, which could eventually come from the Songhai. That would have made more sense than Buganda, but that would have left Central Africa empty.

?? The Hausa states were contemporaneous with the Songhai. For me, the logical Modern Age civs for the region would be the Sokoto Caliphate or the modern Nigerian state.

 

[FishFishFish]

?? The Hausa states were contemporaneous with the Songhai. For me, the logical Modern Age civs for the region would be the Sokoto Caliphate or the modern Nigerian state.

I do agree. The Hausa are not a good fit for the modern age.

I think having two Muslim Sahel Civs during the exploration age could work. Ideally, both would lead into the Fulani who would fill a similar role to the Normans but for West Africa (representing a bunch of different states established during the Fulani Jihads).

 

[Krajzen]

I think having two Muslim Sahel empires during the exploration age could work. Ideally, both would lead into the Fulani who would fill a similar role to the Normans but for West Africa (representing a bunch of different states established during the Fulani Jihads).

Eh, frankly I think exploration era Sahel empires are similar enough to each other that we unfortunately won't see Hausa (or Mali, or Kanem) if Songhai is in. I'd just like Sokoto/Fulani to make Songhai have somebody to go towards - it helps that Sokoto and/or Fulani would have a very distinctive feel, being modern era evangelising cavalry conquest civ*, rather than yet another medieval Sahelian desert merchant civ.

* - I am aware era III is not supposed to have major role for religion, but isn't that in itself an occasion for some unique design for one exceptional civ?

 

[Siptah]

If we are discussing modern civs from present day Nigeria, my money and hope are on Benin.

 

[FishFishFish]

Eh, frankly I think exploration era Sahel empires are similar enough to each other that we unfortunately won't see Hausa (or Mali, or Kanem) if Songhai is in.

Upon looking at Songhai's design, I do feel they might overstep on each other. I do wish they had designed the Songhai civ a bit differently by giving them scientific bonuses (scientific scholarship flourished during Askia Muhammad's reign). That would've provided more room to differentiate them.

It is a shame, because Civilization has never had a scientific Sub-Saharan civ before, and Songhai is probably one of the best choices.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

?? The Hausa states were contemporaneous with the Songhai. For me, the logical Modern Age civs for the region would be the Sokoto Caliphate or the modern Nigerian state.

I mean they lasted into the early 17th century, so I guess it could always be a possibility? Dates are iffy considering Buganda also started in the 13th century, but are Modern.

But I do believe I'd rather Benin, as mentioned above.

 

[gdr_willter]

Upon looking at Songhai's design, I do feel they might overstep on each other. I do wish they had designed the Songhai civ a bit differently by giving them scientific bonuses (scientific scholarship flourished during Askia Muhammad's reign). That would've provided more room to differentiate them.

It is a shame, because Civilization has never had a scientific Sub-Saharan civ before, and Songhai is probably one of the best choices.

Do we know the Songhai's unique features?

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Do we know the Songhai's unique features?

We don't know the Civics tree yet, but everything else is here:https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/songhai-exploration-age-civilization.691461/

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

That reminds me that the Songhai have yet to have a Game Guide and YouTube short published by Firaxis. Along with Himiko and Benjamin Franklin

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

That reminds me that the Songhai have yet to have a Game Guide and YouTube short published by Firaxis. Along with Himiko and Benjamin Franklin

The Songhai guide will probably be Tuesday.

Himiko and Franklin will probably get their guides and First Looks close to when America and Meiji Japan get their civ guides when Firaxis cracks open the Modern Age.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Are Leaders usually announced close to the announcements of their associated civs? Was Xerxes' announcement close to Persia's, and Confucius' close to Han's?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Are Leaders usually announced close to the announcements of their associated civs? Was Xerxes' announcement close to Persia's, and Confucius' close to Han's?

Mostly. The first wave of civ guides didn't line up. And there were a few other exceptions. But for the most part, leaders and civs were within a Tuesday or Thursday of each other.

 

[Evie]

Benin is more of

I mean they lasted into the early 17th century, so I guess it could always be a possibility? Dates are iffy considering Buganda also started in the 13th century, but are Modern.

But I do believe I'd rather Benin, as mentioned above.

19th century, more like - the Hausa States were conquered/overthrown by the Sokoto empire.

The main problem is more...the Sokoto Caliphate was as much of an internal revolution within the Hausa State as an external invasion, so there really is no good way to work around having modern Hausa when the far more obvious modern Sokoto is right there.

Modern Benin I do not see. Their heydays and everything they are best known for belong in the Exploration era, and I think if we get it's far more likely to be as an Exploration Era west African coast civ (with Assante the more likely candidate to take the Modern slot).

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Modern Benin I do not see. Their heydays and everything they are best known for belong in the Exploration era, and I think if we get it's far more likely to be as an Exploration Era west African coast civ (with Assante the more likely candidate to take the Modern slot).

Oh, I meant as a civ from present-day Nigeria, not necessarily Modern.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Oh right, i forgot America had their fake holiday tomorrow.

Turkey is such a bottom-tier meat that it’s practically a vegetable, but Thanksgiving is in no way a fake holiday.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

All holidays are fake.

But also cool

 

[Zaarin]

Turkey is such a bottom-tier meat that it’s practically a vegetable, but Thanksgiving is in no way a fake holiday.

Conversely, turkey is great (albeit not plain, few meats are good plain), but Thanksgiving sucks. The Tasting History episode last week almost made me feel guilty for hating Thanksgiving until he trotted out Sarah Hale's super-saccharine melodramatic story about the child who invited a hunchback to Thanksgiving, and it turned out to be her long-lost father. Then I went back to hating Thanksgiving guilt-free. (Disclaimer: I'm not close to any of my extended family, I don't care for traditional American food, and I tend to ignore secular holidays so Thanksgiving is a solid triple strike for me. )

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Now I'm curious what prerequisites make a holiday "real".

 

[Kankan]

Benin is more of

19th century, more like - the Hausa States were conquered/overthrown by the Sokoto empire.

The main problem is more...the Sokoto Caliphate was as much of an internal revolution within the Hausa State as an external invasion, so there really is no good way to work around having modern Hausa when the far more obvious modern Sokoto is right there.

Modern Benin I do not see. Their heydays and everything they are best known for belong in the Exploration era, and I think if we get it's far more likely to be as an Exploration Era west African coast civ (with Assante the more likely candidate to take the Modern slot).

Benin was still thriving to an extent in the late 1700s and early 1800s but I can see why they may be more fitting as an Exploration Age civ.

Oyo would also be a good bet alongside the Asante as they similarly reached their peak in the 1700s

 

[Zaarin]

I dislike agendas in general, but Amina's may be the worst. I feel like they could summarize it more concisely as, "Amina hates people who exist and likes people who don't exist."