Brexit Thread IV - They're laughing with us, not at us

[AmazonQueen]

Relative long term decline was inevitable from being the workshop of the world in the 19th century.




They were doing OK.

Britain was paying its way in the world, and paying off war debt to the USA too, quite satisfactorily before joining the EEC.

If you look at the attached graph; you will see that the UK's balance of payments account was in balance before 1973.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/timeseries/hbop/pnbp

It was after the UK joined the EEC that it all started to go wobbly, and the UK started running up horrendous deficits.

It wasn't doing ok hence why both Tory and Labour governments wanted in.
Look at growth statistics or productivity. We've been in steady decline since WW II even relative to our European neighbours never mind the fast expanding economies of Asia.
Sadly the EU wasn't a magic solution. Nor was the Thatcherite revolution. Nor was Blair's dream of us being a hi-tech powerhouse whilst the 3rd world did the actual building of stuff.
In the meantime our businesses continue to prioritise short-term rewards for shareholders over investing in their businesses for the longterm.

 

[Hrothbern]

Classic manufacturing better be far away from a Stock Exchange
In the last few decades investments to grow manufacturing in size and level delivered lower returns than buying shares in a wide variety of compagnies not contributing to a healthy economy.
Like the City
The downfall of the UK since the 70ies has I think more to do with the power of big money. The US affected as well, only there the general growth was bigger from other factors.
Both the UK and the US see their income inequality grow rapidly since the 80ies, much more than EU and many other countries.
The UK choose to follow the US Big Money model, and many in the UK want to continue that.
Good Luck

 

[Oerdin]

Problem 1
If the Orginal owners are moving there now unprofitable production lines overseas what makes you think the UK government can make them profitable ?

Problem 2
If eighty percent of cars are exported, then the internal market for UK is just twenty percent, if you building fewer car they become more expensive
How are you going to even compete when the Orginal oweners have moved production overseas are now producing the same cars in larger numbers but cheaper price now ?

Problem 3
Companies like BMW dont even produce its Car engines in the UK, How do you intend to build cars with engines ?
UK government is going to reverse engineer German engines and set up production line for engines ? and all the other parts ?

Problem 4
UK has its own car industries, you going to restart a rivial car manufactorers and subisdise it to compete with UK car companies now ?

Wrt #3 BMW originally sold Chrysler engines made in Brazil in the mini. The hard reality is the EU is a low growth, high regulation, extremely protectionist market. A 3% tariff is going to matter a whole lot and gaining access to free trade with the rest of the world (which is all growing faster and which is far larger) would be a major net positive. The Eurocrats know that thus their desire to block free trade.

 

[Arakhor]

Is it just the EU you hate, Oerdin? I don't recall you railing against Trump's protectionism in other threads.

 

[Takhisis]

He's a free-trade fundamentalist. If we set him in a cage with innonimatu they'd either do a fusion dance or argue one another to death.

Which is a welcome change in itself from un-critically publishing Remainer rants.

Those are usually called opinion pieces. Which, strangely enough, Mr. A.B.dP. Johnson and many others generally don't try to do. One wonders what they read in university, other than Penthouse.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Relative long term decline was inevitable from being the workshop of the world in the 19th century.It was after the UK joined the EEC that it all started to go wobbly, and the UK started running up horrendous deficits.

Pax Britannia ?
Well Germany seems to have done fine after it lost its empire (and two world wars)

As for running deficits, Iam pretty sure that the EU has laws against running large deficits and accumulating too much debt
The rules I believe are now relaxed since the Financial Crisis of 2008 as the EU is trying stimulus to spur their economies.

 

[Silurian]

Is there anything you won't blame on Remainers or the EU, Edward?

the EU was also obviously responsible for wiping out the dinosaurs

 

[Arakhor]

Except in Northern Ireland, where some are still running for office.

 

[Dachs]

Except in Northern Ireland, where some are still running for office.

fine, take your like, damn you

 

[Kyriakos]

"Smash the IRA!!!"

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Senethro said, in some other post that I now can't apparently easily quote because the thread is locked:

Come on Manfred, you're a UK citizen. Have an opinion of your own here in this thread. Don't just be a pedant about dictionary definitions or reach for the lowest of hanging sarcasms. Express something.

I was clearly expressing something there. An opinion in fact. I can't think of any reason why lowering the voting age from 18 to 16 (or lower?) would be a general improvement at all. The fact that it only ever seems to be suggested by idealogues for whom such a change would benefit their agenda seems to support that. "It would garner more votes for what I want" isn't a very good argument, but that's essentially the only argument that's given.

And then Arakhor said:

We let them have sex and we used to let them smoke. We even let 17-year-old children drive.

Yeah and? We let 5 year olds wear clothes and speak too. So what?

 

[Senethro]

I was clearly expressing something there. An opinion in fact. I can't think of any reason why lowering the voting age from 18 to 16 (or lower?) would be a general improvement at all. The fact that it only ever seems to be suggested by idealogues for whom such a change would benefit their agenda seems to support that. "It would garner more votes for what I want" isn't a very good argument, but that's essentially the only argument that's given.

You barely expressed anything at all. The literal meaning of your post was "Thats a good idea" and given that you seem to get very upset when other posters don't use precise speech and harangue them for pages about it, I wonder why you would choose to communicate in this way yourself.

Your posts are so sparse of content and meaning that they have to be interpreted through who you tend to reply to and who you tend to click like on, which offer more information about you than anything you offer about yourself. You're a bit of a shadow cast upon a cave wall than a being showing visible dimensions.

 

[Kyriakos]

Start of uni (or analogous) is a logical time to allow one to vote. Iirc it is at 17-18 for most countries anyway (right to vote).
Giving the vote to school kids would be a very bad idea.

 

[Broken_Erika]

Start of uni (or analogous) is a logical time to allow one to vote. Iirc it is at 17-18 for most countries anyway (right to vote).
Giving the vote to school kids would be a very bad idea.

Are you implying that 5 year olds might not cast their votes wisely?

 

[Arakhor]

Yeah and? We let 5 year olds wear clothes and speak too. So what?

Wasn't your argument that we shouldn't let 16-17 year-olds vote on the future of the UK, simply because they're legal minors? Somehow, I think that reproduction has a far greater effect on our species than voting on a vital matter two years earlier than normal.

 

[Silurian]

Some MPs have started calling for the referendum to be declared void after vote leave illegally overspent by 8%; which is more than they won the advisory poll by.

from Guardian

Vote Leave fined and reported to police by Electoral Commission

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...rted-to-police-by-electoral-commission-brexit

 

[Arakhor]

I noticed an article in the Guardian saying that if this had been an election, it would have been declared invalid and forced to rerun, but that since that this was "merely" an advisory referendum, that law doesn't automatically apply and the Govt is wilfully ignoring the precedent.

 

[Broken_Erika]

The precedent must not be allowed to interfere with the will of the people!

 

[Arakhor]

The will of the people as expressed after illegal levels of spending on one side only, you mean?

 

[Broken_Erika]

Campaign laws must not interfere with the will of The People™!
furthermore;
Facts, Reality, Truth and Critical/Independent Thinking must not cloud the will of The People™!