Brexit Thread V - The Final Countdown?!?

[mitsho]

The obvious solution, yes. But also the opposite of what the Brexiteers campaigned on.

As of what the EU is going to do? I don't know, but on their side, nothing really changed. What is going into the Union is of much greater concern than what leaves it. And they don't know what the British let into at their other border crossings, so there's still a need to check everything. Doing anything else would also be unfair to all the rest of the Union and other external countries who don't get that privilege. If the British think they can risk it, that doesn't necessarily mean the same for the EU.

 

[Takhisis]

the

Well, you cannot blame the Remain campaign and the EU for the Leave campaign's decision to base their campaign on a pack of lies, now, can you?

…can't you?

 

[Hrothbern]

I guess it is primarily up to the EU members, that handle the customs with UK goods, to get geared up for the hassle.
These bordering member countries will get BTW on average 0.3% of the import value for their customs efforts/expenses, being roughly 1 Billion Euro (the rest of the customs duties, 1.2%, goes to the general EU income). At a high "all in" cost of 100,000 Euro annually per job, that is enough for 10,000 additional jobs at the customs. So many will not be needed.
If that transactional customs hassle does not go that fast at the start... the traffic congestion of lorries wanting to enter the EU will be on UK motorways.

 

[innonimatu]

The obvious solution, yes. But also the opposite of what the Brexiteers campaigned on.

Can you point out one instance of brexiteers specifically campaigning on the UK closing its borders to goods from the EU?

There were several important issues much talked about. Sovereignty, in terms of a country making its own laws and rules, not taking them from others. Mad (imho) plans for a free trading UK (presented as the Singapore of Europe thing, as if Singapore's government wasn't actually one of the most interventionist in the world). Ending legal immigration from the EU.

Never, that I recall, did anyone made a brexit issue of ceasing to import goods from the EU countries. There is no contradiction whatsoever with brexit campaign ideas in letting things stand on this as they were until each category of goods is duly considered.

 

[Takhisis]

Right now B.A. de Pf. Johnson is campaigning for hard Brexit.

 

[Hrothbern]

Right now B.A. de Pf. Johnson is campaigning for hard Brexit.

A broken record player

 

[Takhisis]

Well, yes, he is a Conservative.

 

[innonimatu]

But does anyone still take Boris seriously in the UK?

 

[Silurian]

But does anyone still take Boris seriously in the UK?

Well he is a Brexiteer

 

[Takhisis]

At the very least, one single UK constituency does.

edit: xpost.

 

[Mega Tsunami]

Can you point out one instance of brexiteers specifically campaigning on the UK closing its borders to goods from the EU?

If you count Corbyn as a ‘Brexiteer’ then I am sure he would want to do that. But no, the last thing Britain would ever do (under anyone but Corbyn) would be to close our borders to the EU (or, indeed, anywhere). It is just not in our DNA.


Talking of former UKIP leader Jeremy Corbyn, here he was, sounding off about the EU a few years ago:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rankenstein-European-empire-21st-century.html

Proof that Corbyn hates the EU: Video shows the Labour leader branding the bloc a 'military Frankenstein' and the 'European empire of 21st century'

A snip from the above:

He was addressing an audience of Irish activists the year after the country rejected the Lisbon Treaty by 53.4 per cent to 46.6 per cent.

Mr Corbyn warned them that he expected officials to refuse to accept the result – and to keep on fighting against moves to augment the EU's power.
'Don't scrap your posters, don't recycle them, because you're going to need them for a third referendum,' Mr Corbyn said.

'Because I've got a feeling they're going to keep on voting until they get the answer they want.'

Woops. Sorry guys. I just got mixed up between Farage and Corbyn for a minute there. Easily done, I am sure you would agree, when they are talking about the EU.

 

[mitsho]

Can you point out one instance of brexiteers specifically campaigning on the UK closing its borders to goods from the EU?

Nah, I'm not discussing semantics on an online forum, sorry. I just assumed that free trade and "taking control of our border" also includes goods and not only people. Btw. will they control the lorry drivers or let them roll through as well?

I just find it very imaginative of you to frame the UK saying "so we just will not check the goods at our new shiny border for a year" as a win instead of what it is, a concession.

 

[Hrothbern]

If you count Corbyn as a ‘Brexiteer’ then I am sure he would want to do that. But no, the last thing Britain would ever do (under anyone but Corbyn) would be to close our borders to the EU (or, indeed, anywhere). It is just not in our DNA.


Talking of former UKIP leader Jeremy Corbyn, here he was, sounding off about the EU a few years ago:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...rankenstein-European-empire-21st-century.html

Proof that Corbyn hates the EU: Video shows the Labour leader branding the bloc a 'military Frankenstein' and the 'European empire of 21st century'

A snip from the above:

He was addressing an audience of Irish activists the year after the country rejected the Lisbon Treaty by 53.4 per cent to 46.6 per cent.

Mr Corbyn warned them that he expected officials to refuse to accept the result – and to keep on fighting against moves to augment the EU's power.
'Don't scrap your posters, don't recycle them, because you're going to need them for a third referendum,' Mr Corbyn said.

'Because I've got a feeling they're going to keep on voting until they get the answer they want.'

Woops. Sorry guys. I just got mixed up between Farage and Corbyn for a minute there. Easily done, I am sure you would agree, when they are talking about the EU.

"military Frankenstein"

From that article I find also this quote funny:

"In his speech, Mr Corbyn said the Lisbon Treaty made the EU 'subservient to the wishes of Nato'.

That must be the reason that defense spending in the UK as % of GDP is the highest in the EU (except Greece but that has other reasons).
For US foreign affairs and US geopolitical security the UK is "our man on the ground" in the EU.

When it is about global military interventions and the NATO, Corbyn is fully entitled to be against "it". Just like he is now against the Tory UK government supporting Gaido in Venezuela.
But accusing "the EU", in such words, on positions, where the other half of the UK, the Tories, is an outspoken champion to reform-influence the EU in directions he does not like, is just cheap and irresponsible.
Accusing "the EU". What a nonsense. On matters of military or military related Foreign Affairs, there is no "EU". There are first of all individual members. The EU can only impose things on such matters when there is no veto. Meaning no one is against it. Meaning all members already had that opinion. => there is nothing to impose.
The Gaido issue showing that clearly again. But hey.. what do Thatcher, Cameron, Corbyn understand about the EU or consensus ? Not much. None of them ever bothered to understand.

In that sense he differs not from Thatcher and Cameron and so many others: a fully utilitarian position towards the EU, no shared EU project whatsoever, no team-player, and just abusing the EU for domestic politics.

But that is no surprise... or is it ?

 

[Hrothbern]

May has apparently a fountain of money available for her charme offensives

Not only money aid to some Leave districts with Labour MP's, and whatever she promised secretly to some (car) companies if they please.. please.. stay.

But a Worldchampionship together with Ireland is also on the menu:

May floats prospect of joint UK-Ireland World Cup bid for 2030
May says the ties of family and friendship between the UK and Ireland are more important than ever. There is a yearning for a close relationship. That is why she will work with Leo Varadkar, the Irish PM, to achieve this.

She says the Irish government has suggested annual meetings, where both PMs and their ministers could come together to discuss issues.

• May floats the prospect of the UK and Ireland staging a joint World Cup bid for 2030, provided the two respective football associations approve the idea.

FacebookTwitter
40m ago15:18

May says she also wants the strongest possible bilateral relationship with Ireland. The UK’s relationship with it is deeper than its relationship with any other member of the EU27.

That deep and special relationship with the US, EU, Japan, every country she visits, Ireland, must be the reason that 200,000 Brits applied for an Irish passport in 2018.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...itons-seeking-irish-passports-ahead-of-brexit

 

[Manfred Belheim]

The really annoying thing is if Scotland goes independent my Scottish ancestors are too far back and I didn't live there long enough to claim citizenship so I'll be stuck in Little England.

Because Scotland becoming independent from the UK would somehow cause less turmoil than the UK becoming independent from the EU?

 

[AmazonQueen]

Because Scotland becoming independent from the UK would somehow cause less turmoil than the UK becoming independent from the EU?

Economically it would undoubtedly cause difficulties in the short term although I think Scotland would cope.
Culturally and politically Scotland and England have been on divergent paths for the last 40 years at least.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Yeah sure it would cope and probably be fine in the long term, or even medium term. But if you're talking about fleeing the UK because of economic issues and uncertainties then it's a bit odd to consider fleeing to somewhere that would have all the turmoil of leaving AND joining two different political unions, presumably with some interim period inbetween, necessitating at least one change of central bank and currency, if not two.

Unless you'd be fleeing on principle of course, rather than economic concerns. But then if your principle is that "leaving political unions is bad" then still...

 

[Senethro]

More like shedding some dead weight.

 

[Cheetah]

If Scotland leaves the UK at the same time as the UK is leaving the EU, then there wouldn't be much of any extra difficulties, though.

The problems are the same, and aren't the kind of problems that add up.

And they should take roughly the same time to resolve, depending on the competency of the political leadership.

 

[AmazonQueen]

Yeah sure it would cope and probably be fine in the long term, or even medium term. But if you're talking about fleeing the UK because of economic issues and uncertainties then it's a bit odd to consider fleeing to somewhere that would have all the turmoil of leaving AND joining two different political unions, presumably with some interim period inbetween, necessitating at least one change of central bank and currency, if not two.

Unless you'd be fleeing on principle of course, rather than economic concerns. But then if your principle is that "leaving political unions is bad" then still...

I'm talking about leaving the UK (although unlikely to actually do it) because I don't like my country becoming more xenophobic.