Christianity and the Old testament

[sysyphus]

Often in discussions here many people claim that only the New Testament applies to Christianity and the Old Testament does not. If this is true, then how would such people rectify the following?

1. The Ten Commandments, from the book of Exodus, forms the cornerstone of Christian ethics.

2. The first chapter of the first book of the New Testament is the lineage of Jesus as a descendant of David and Abraham.

3. Although not explicitly stated, Jesus speaks to the Jews as the son of the same God they currently worship.

4. Many of the bibles distributed by the Gideons, a christian organisation, include the Old Testament, and those that don't include at least the Psalms and Proverbs.

How can anyone say that there is no connection?

 

[plarq]

Denying because of antisemitism?

 

[sysyphus]

Maybe that, but my guess is largely to avoid being associated with the book of Leviticus.

 

[Bill3000]

Denying because of antisemitism?

No, historically speaking, antisemitism came out of the religious disputes, not vice-versa.

As for the OP, blame Paul.

 

[Phlegmak]

How can anyone say that there is no connection?

No one can logically say that the Old Testament is not part of Christianity. They simply don't have a lot of choice but to try to deny the Old Testament due to the tremendous cognitive dissonance of a god that ordered genocide. Among MANY other things.

 

[Elrohir]

Often in discussions here many people claim that only the New Testament applies to Christianity and the Old Testament does not. If this is true, then how would such people rectify the following?

1. The Ten Commandments, from the book of Exodus, forms the cornerstone of Christian ethics.

2. The first chapter of the first book of the New Testament is the lineage of Jesus as a descendant of David and Abraham.

3. Although not explicitly stated, Jesus speaks to the Jews as the son of the same God they currently worship.

4. Many of the bibles distributed by the Gideons, a christian organisation, include the Old Testament, and those that don't include at least the Psalms and Proverbs.

How can anyone say that there is no connection?

I think you messed it up.

There's a difference between saying the Old Testament laws apply to Christians - only the moral ones do, because they were reemphasized later - and saying there is not connection between Judaism and Christianity. I would say that Christians are not bound by Old Testament ceremonial or dietary laws, but I wouldn't say there is no connection between Christianity and Judaism.

 

[Shadylookin]

I would say it's pretty easy to tell christianity is based off the old testament.

They wouldn't call it the new testament if the old one wasn't their base

they try and deny it because anyone with any reading comprehension can tell that the god of the old testament would make Stalin look like a saint.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

Often in discussions here many people claim that only the New Testament applies to Christianity and the Old Testament does not. If this is true, then how would such people rectify the following?

1. The Ten Commandments, from the book of Exodus, forms the cornerstone of Christian ethics.

Yes, but only because they were reiterated in the New Testament.

2. The first chapter of the first book of the New Testament is the lineage of Jesus as a descendant of David and Abraham.

This is because the prophets declared that the messiah would be of the line of David, and the belief in Judaism was that only decendants of David were legitimate "kings of the Jews," a claim to which Jesus had, and by establishing that he was of the house of David, he thus established his legitimacy to lead the Jewish people.

3. Although not explicitly stated, Jesus speaks to the Jews as the son of the same God they currently worship.

Because Jesus was a Jew.

4. Many of the bibles distributed by the Gideons, a christian organisation, include the Old Testament, and those that don't include at least the Psalms and Proverbs.

I don't know anything about this either way, so I've no comment.

How can anyone say that there is no connection?

There certainly is a connection. It's not that the Old Testment doesn't apply to Christians, its that the worship of God has taken on a new nature. We are no longer required to do things such as make animal or plant offerings to God, or to keep our bodies "clean" by blessing our food a special way, because now Christ has taken that burden from us by dying for our sins. Jesus was the prophey that brought us this message, only when he died and rose again did he become Christos, as far as we are concerned.

No one can logically say that the Old Testament is not part of Christianity. They simply don't have a lot of choice but to try to deny the Old Testament due to the tremendous cognitive dissonance of a god that ordered genocide. Among MANY other things.

This is one case where you just don't know what you're talking about. They are few and far between, but it does happen.

I think you messed it up.

There's a difference between saying the Old Testament laws apply to Christians - only the moral ones do, because they were reemphasized later - and saying there is not connection between Judaism and Christianity. I would say that Christians are not bound by Old Testament ceremonial or dietary laws, but I wouldn't say there is no connection between Christianity and Judaism.

There's no connection between Judaism and Christianity, eh? Then why does Judaism use the Pentateuch? Why were the first Christians called Jewish Christians? Why were the Messiah and all his diciples Jewish, obey Jewish laws and traditions, and conform to Jewish life? The first "Christians" didn't think they were, nor did they intend to, start a whole new religion.

I honestly do not understand how you can claim there is no connection between Christanity and Judaism. Granted, Judaism has more directly in common with Islam than Christianity as far as actual practices are concerned, but there is no shadow of a doubt that Christanity came from Judaism.

EDIT: What a wonderful habit of misreading I've developed as of late.

 

[Elrohir]

There's no connection between Judaism and Christianity, eh? Then why does Judaism use the Pentateuch? Why were the first Christians called Jewish Christians? Why were the Messiah and all his diciples Jewish, obey Jewish laws and traditions, and conform to Jewish life? The first "Christians" didn't think they were, nor did they intend to, start a whole new religion.

I honestly do not understand how you can claim there is no connection between Christanity and Judaism. Granted, Judaism has more directly in common with Islam than Christianity as far as actual practices are concerned, but there is no shadow of a doubt that Christanity came from Judaism.

I think you messed it up.

There's a difference between saying the Old Testament laws apply to Christians - only the moral ones do, because they were reemphasized later - and saying there is not connection between Judaism and Christianity. I would say that Christians are not bound by Old Testament ceremonial or dietary laws, but I wouldn't say there is no connection between Christianity and Judaism.

Double negative = positive. There is a connection.

EDIT: No problem. I do it all the time too.

 

[warpus]

I think you messed it up.

There's a difference between saying the Old Testament laws apply to Christians - only the moral ones do, because they were reemphasized later - and saying there is not connection between Judaism and Christianity. I would say that Christians are not bound by Old Testament ceremonial or dietary laws, but I wouldn't say there is no connection between Christianity and Judaism.

So where does it say in the New Testament which parts of the Old Testament don't apply to Christians anymore?

Or do you just pick and choose as you wish?

 

[Elrohir]

So where does it say in the New Testament which parts of the Old Testament don't apply to Christians anymore?

Or do you just pick and choose as you wish?

We don't have to follow the ceremonial laws God gave Israel as those were specific to that time and place. The moral laws are absolute and we are supposed to try to follow.

If you're asking whether the Bible ever clearly has a list where it says "OK, follow these laws, but not these" then no, it doesn't. If you're asking whether I made this up, then the answer is still no.

 

[zjl56]

Some laws have been replaced, and others have been kept. The 10 commandants are not done with because they follow perfectly with Christ's two commandants, Love your neighbor as yourself, and love the Lord with all your heart, mind, and soul. It is not the laws specifically, but the Spirit of the Law.
So when you put into this context of the Spirit of the law, the Old and New Testaments flow together. Jesus or Paul didn't specifically address each law, but along with Paul's writings, there is Jesus' statement to Peter saying "Nothing that I have blessed is unclean."

 

[Godwynn]

As for the OP, blame Paul.

I blame Ron Paul, Paul Volcker, and Hank Paulson.

 

[sysyphus]

I think you messed it up.

There's a difference between saying the Old Testament laws apply to Christians - only the moral ones do, because they were reemphasized later - and saying there is not connection between Judaism and Christianity. I would say that Christians are not bound by Old Testament ceremonial or dietary laws, but I wouldn't say there is no connection between Christianity and Judaism.

There's alot of sense in what you're saying, however some people on these boards have stated verbatim on several occasions that the Old Testament has abosilutely nothing to do with Christianity.

 

[Traitorfish]

1. The Ten Commandments, from the book of Exodus, forms the cornerstone of Christian ethics.

Actually, the foundation of Christian ethics is the reciprocal law-
[quote="Luke 6: 27-36]27 "But I say to you who listen: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If anyone hits you on the cheek, offer the other also. And if anyone takes away your coat, don't hold back your shirt either. 30 Give to everyone who asks from you, and from one who takes away your things, don't ask for them back. 31 Just as you want others to do for you, do the same for them. 32 If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 If you do [what is] good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do [what is] good, and lend, expecting nothing in return. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. For He is gracious to the ungrateful and evil. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful.[/quote]
The sort of reciprocal altruism encouraged by Jesus stands in stark contrast to the morale absolutism predominant in the Old Testament.

 

[Bill3000]

Besides, the ten commandments are meant for Jews only, not gentiles. There's the Noahide laws for the gentiles.

 

[warpus]

We don't have to follow the ceremonial laws God gave Israel as those were specific to that time and place. The moral laws are absolute and we are supposed to try to follow.

If you're asking whether the Bible ever clearly has a list where it says "OK, follow these laws, but not these" then no, it doesn't. If you're asking whether I made this up, then the answer is still no.

So, you are essentially telling me that this was all decided by error-prone humans, and is not based on an instruction from God, like the rest of the Bible.

Since when does the word of man overrule the word of God?

 

[Phlegmak]

This is one case where you just don't know what you're talking about. They are few and far between, but it does happen.

I know what I'm talking about. Thanks.

 

[El_Machinae]

Sisyphus: I'd imagine that the OT is used because not enough information is given in the NT to deduce God's intentions and motivations. The OT is used as supplemental information.

... people will interpret the information the way they want, anyway.

 

[classical_hero]

Actually, the foundation of Christian ethics is the reciprocal law-

The sort of reciprocal altruism encouraged by Jesus stands in stark contrast to the morale absolutism predominant in the Old Testament.

Actually the greatest moral ethics for a Christian is stated thus.
Matthew 22:35-40 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

These two great commandments are also found in the Old Testament. The first great commandment is found in Deuteronomy 6:4-9. This is known as the Mishna. This commandment was something that the Israelis were meant to recite everyday so that they would remind them that their first duty was to love God, no matter what they did.

The second commandment is found originally in Leviticus 19:18. Basically these two commandments are what the law is about about. You can condense that whole 613 different laws in the Torah into these two commandments. ALso the Ten commandments can be broken down into these two great commandments, with the first four Commandments about our duty to God (Having no other gods in place of Jehovah, no graven images, no bowing down to Idol and keeping the Sabbath and keeping it Holy.) The last six refer to our duty to our fellow human (Honour our parents, do not murder do not commit adultery, not stealing, do not bear false witness against others, do not covet things that are not yours.)

And every single one of these laws were repeated in the New Testament except the keeping of the Sabbath, but that does not mean that in the New Testament that there was not a day where people would specifically rest and worship God, that Being the first day of the week, Sunday. This was the only change in the Ten Commandments since now the holiest day for a Christian is the day that Jesus rose from the dead and each Sunday we are remembering that occasion.

What people are missing about the Old Testament is the fact that is shows us that we are totally incapable of keeping God's Commands. We see throughout the Old Testament people forsaking God's commands, even though they should be keeping it. That is the story of History. The law shows us that we are wicked and that it all that it can do. Galatians 3:22-26 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.