I wish he did. We still have only 27% people fully vaccinated.
Coronavirus. The n(in)th sequel.
- Thread starter Takhisis
- Start date
- Status
João III
King
I'm not even talking about locking down earlier. I'm talking about the cover-up and state censorship. That part's not complicated and it really is quite easy to say the world would be better off had the CCP been transparent
Maybe? We have a wealth of evidence of governments that - despite having access to the correct information - still manage to bungle their response to the ongoing pandemic. The problem I see (and I'm not saying this is you, here) is people using China's actions early on as some kind of a scapegoat that removes agency from other governments' failures. The sorry state of the world is as such that China could've done something against their horrendously authoritarian instincts (as doubtful as that may be) and every other country could've still reacted in the same way.
KaibaCorp
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2020
- Messages
- 121
I’m sorry but… this is kind of effing hilarious in a dark way.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
The unconstitutional part is the federal government skipping legislature (again) to attempt to force something on states/lower governments where it has no authority (again) using a nonsense application of a body well beyond its scope (again). First CDC somehow attempting jurisdiction over evictions, now OSHA. Biden even stated this wasn't constitutional, I believe, but that he's for it anyway. This after directly stating he wouldn't do it not long ago. Maybe he just forgot?
It's also worth pointing out that the availability of FDA-approved vaccine vs availability of vaccine in general are not the same thing. Right now, mandates still effectively force widespread adoption of experimental/non-FDA-approved versions of the vaccine. Maybe some governors don't want to mandate experimental drugs to the people they represent as a matter of process, when people who use them voluntarily are almost entirely protected against long-term risks regardless of what others choose.
??? You can easily get a COVID vaccine in Florida if you want it. DeSantis did not ban vaccines...
I'd laugh it out of court, and anybody with more than cobwebs between the ears would also. If he actually banned vaccines, rather than banning a mandate, it would be a different story of course.
Quoted is total non-logic. Anybody who wants a vaccine in FL can get one. Its vaccination rate is comparable to Oregon and Delaware, and seems to be in the top half (18th) of US states (unless this is wrong https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker )...though for some reason that doesn't get in the way of the narrative above? Very few people who get a vaccine get hospitalized, and the number of deaths after vaccination is close enough to nothing that a standard which allows mandate to survive scrutiny would allow governments to mandate a large number of things.
Of course, there is no evidential basis for a mandate to survive scrutiny. If people want to play stupid games, they can win stupid prizes. Don't see much difference between people avoiding vaccine vs operating a motorcycle somewhat dangerously. Except that the latter is a lot more dangerous to other people than unvaccinated are to vaccinated, of course...
Last edited:
You had to slide that in, I guess. Can't be a TMIT post on Covid without some total non-logic in there that consistently (for some inexplicable reason) attempts to play down the impact of the virus.
AmtrakQuebec
King
Either you're not paying attention to the news at all or you're being deliberately obtuse.
bernie14
Filter Manipulator
source please
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
Why are antivaxxers obsessed with horse medication? If they don't believe that covid exists.. what the hell do horses have to do with anything?
I mean, I don't expect there to be any semblance of logical thought or reason.. but like.. what
I mean, I don't expect there to be any semblance of logical thought or reason.. but like.. what
Because the government and medical researchers tell them that horse medication is ineffective and they should vaccinate. For antivaxxers it means exact opposite.
I'm amazed how many adult people behave like 2 year olds.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
FL bills are to ban passports and mandates, not the vaccine itself. Unless you have evidence otherwise? That FL is apparently a top 20 state in vaccination rate not only makes your assertion of the state banning vaccines questionable, it also makes the "class action against DeSantis for murder" stance look stupid. Also calls into question the assertion about lack of vaccinations being responsible for the death toll in FL.
None of which you addressed when you quoted me, of course...so:
"Either the mayoclinic link didn't work for you or you're struggling to read".
Gelion
Retired Captain
Thats what happens when you replace education with bread and circus.
warpus
Sommerswerd asked me to change this
I'm not sure what "bread and circus" is a reference to, but we have nurses protesting covid here in Canada.. It's no doubt a tiny minority of all nurses, but I gotta say.. My sister is a nurse.. She is vaccinated and all that jazz so there's no issue there... but the thing is.. She has embraced things like "naturopaths", detoxing, etc. and other pseudoscientific nonsense to some degree. This seems to be fairly popular with other nurses.. so it does not surprise me that some of them have come out as being antivaxx..
What surprises me that you can go through all that education and training.. in a healthcare field.. and come out at the end not believing that vaccines work. How does that happen? Are our standards too low? It's like going to school to learn about carpentry and become a carpenter and when you're finished you don't believe that trees exist
It doesn't help that in Canada pseudoscientific nonsense masquarading as medicine is sold in our drug stores, right beside actual medication.. I'm not surprised it's lead to some confusion, but.. nurses should know better.. Otherwise.. should you really be a nurse?
What surprises me that you can go through all that education and training.. in a healthcare field.. and come out at the end not believing that vaccines work. How does that happen? Are our standards too low? It's like going to school to learn about carpentry and become a carpenter and when you're finished you don't believe that trees exist
It doesn't help that in Canada pseudoscientific nonsense masquarading as medicine is sold in our drug stores, right beside actual medication.. I'm not surprised it's lead to some confusion, but.. nurses should know better.. Otherwise.. should you really be a nurse?
Gelion
Retired Captain
Well, pseudoscience is a breeding ground for financial schemes and also a basis to keep people under direct control, by using manipulating schemes on them and so on. The standards are low and they are going lower motivated by stupid TV, films and general disinterest in a responsible professional community-based lifestyle. I was referring to the fact that, progressively, a focus on education was shifted to a focus on cheap beer and cheap entertainment and as a result there's both distrust in authority (which let it happen) and general inability to correctly judge the situation.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Not everyone who is opposed to COVID vaccine in particular do so because they broadly don't believe vaccines work. I suspect actual "anti-vaxxers" in the traditional sense (being against vaccines in general) is a small % of people opposed to taking COVID vaccine specifically, and an inaccurate (or outright dishonest) representation of their position won't help anything.
There are also people like me, who looked at the math on taking it vs not and took it...but still operate in favor of individual liberty and note that if vaccinated people are mostly safe, the argument that unvaccinated people are some kind of threat/merit compelled behavior doesn't hold up to basic scrutiny. Either the vaccine takes your risk of serious issues with the disease down to almost nothing or it doesn't. And if it does, any mandate/etc would be "for your own good". Hard no on that for still experimental drugs.
If anybody might eat a lawsuit, it would be states that issue mandates without giving sufficient access to the FDA approved vaccine specifically. That's a major legal landmine, in addition to the constitutional questions. Even after approval, compelling via mandate is akin to compelling healthy eating.
There are also people like me, who looked at the math on taking it vs not and took it...but still operate in favor of individual liberty and note that if vaccinated people are mostly safe, the argument that unvaccinated people are some kind of threat/merit compelled behavior doesn't hold up to basic scrutiny. Either the vaccine takes your risk of serious issues with the disease down to almost nothing or it doesn't. And if it does, any mandate/etc would be "for your own good". Hard no on that for still experimental drugs.
If anybody might eat a lawsuit, it would be states that issue mandates without giving sufficient access to the FDA approved vaccine specifically. That's a major legal landmine, in addition to the constitutional questions. Even after approval, compelling via mandate is akin to compelling healthy eating.
Gelion
Retired Captain
That is true, there are a lot of people opposed to this particular vaccine and who are generally unhappy of the stupidly with which the crisis was handled. Not to mention the quick transfer of wealth from the middle class to above that doesn't help build trust.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Wealth transfer has been an unfortunately recurring pattern in recent memory. Pretty telling who wound up better vs worse off on average after the housing crisis too. Also undermines credibility of an "emergency" when "emergency" measures last > year and when it comes to enforcement some people apparently have more of an "emergency" than others.
stfoskey12
Emperor of Foskania
That's true. The vaccine also reduces transmission somewhat, but whether it reduces it to flu-transmission levels is a question I don't have the answer to.
Lexicus
Deity
I am actually not sure we would, since the most up-to-date data I've seen suggests that the virus was already spreading around the world before the Chinese government knew about it (assuming that they didn't know about it from a lab accident or something prior to December 2019). That said, I don't disagree that the CCP should be more transparent in general.
Look dude, everyone knows that if Congress had passed some kind of lockdown law you'd find some other procedural bullfeathers excuse because you oppose lockdowns ideologically. There is no need to maintain this pretense.
You don't need to infect other people with covid for your vaccination status to affect other people. If you take up a hospital bed and someone who got into a car crash is turned away from the hospital, your irresponsibility has now affected another person without ever transmitting covid.
The idea that people have the right to be vessels for a deadly disease is absolute 100% nonsense. The government has an absolute right to require people to either get vaccinated or live on reservations, period, end of story. You have no right to infect other people with a deadly virus, period, end of story. @amadeus, another libertarian, understands this. I suspect that, as with the procedural point above, this whole argument about the relative harm/risk is a pretext for your ideological opposition to government action to protect society from the virus, and possibly also your evident belief that the virus is really no big deal.
- Status
