Dave Chappelle's Netflix show

amadeus

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Kinda surprised there isn’t a thread on it. Some trans people are angry at Netflix about it.

Thoughts? I don’t have Netflix so I can’t watch it. I liked his show on Comedy Central, seen his other stand-up.

Moderator Action: Don't arbitrarily change the title of a contentious thread multiple pages in. ~ Arakhor
 
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Some people are really angry. These things are always a problem, because the news sources do not want to repeat some thing that got the whole world up in arms. That leaves everyone else to choose between watching the original source or guessing. I have done neither, so am not sure what the anger is about.
 
I should clarify that when I say “some trans people,” I was trying to be concise in the nature of the controversy rather than just those who are offended; being trans is not a prerequisite for having an unfavorable opinion of Chappelle/Netflix.
 
This Vox piece seems to be a pretty good background of past events and summary of recent events.

Some people will obviously try and quibble along the lines of "prove Rowling is a TERF", or some other tangential nonsense that is pretty irrelevant to the problems around Chapelle's special(s), but hey. That's a truism on this general subject these days, unfortunately. The art of criticism has been lost to the "culture war" of "free speech or death".

In general terms, the Netflix employees absolutely have the right to voice (and act on) their dissatisfaction with Netflix choosing to platform Chapelle for reasons that ultimately boil down to "he makes money". It's not censorship, it's not "the woke left" (it may surprise readers to learn that trans folk, just like everybody else, can sit on most - if not all - parts of the ideological spectrum), it's capitalism profiting from edgy humour taken to its inevitable extreme. Chapelle being a transphobe is actually secondary to the business choosing to platform him for revenue. If they believe the goal of "earning money from this one show out of their catalogue of however many bazillion" outstrips the harm it can cause in punching down to a marginalised demographic, that's their choice as a business. And likewise, people are free - and should be free - to criticise them for this. And to demonstrate their criticism, if they're able to.
 
I personally am just sick of every comedian claiming they are being canceled. Canceled now being a word invoked whenever anybody doesn't like something they say, and simply says so.

Also it's interesting that Dave Chappelle is the focal point for this latest one, given he quit comedy for a while, because he didn't like how racist white people reacted to his black jokes. So it's not like he is just a outrage button pusher. He is someone who thought about his own comedy. But when pointed out that he is doing it on a different issue (where he isn't a member of the group), he reacts differently.
 
I think it's a bad thing.

Dave didn't have to punch down, he didn't have to include these jokes that hurt. If he was a master comedian he could have sold a show without it.

However he decided to go for it. To me that shows weak character. Chasing dollar's when you know you are hurting people.

I don't agree it's edgy, or that he is valiantly defending free speech. He's making money by causing offence and hurting people. Bad juju
 
I watched the show the other day and did not see anything overly offensive at all. Just your average standup comedy act. Dave has been doing this sort of humour for decades now..

If anything it made me feel for him. He's obviously still distraught over the loss of his friend
 
Haven't seem it not gonna watch it.

Just not a fan of stand up that much.
 
I saw it last week and thought it was pretty funny in parts. I don’t think I would have ever watched it if not for the controversy so the protest might be a bit counter productive.
 
I seen one of his newer standup specials and I didn't think it was anywhere near as good as the old stuff he did. No interest whatever in watching any of this other stuff.
 
I feel like most people criticizing Chappelle's [latest] show online didn't actually watch it. He was massively supportive of the LGBTQ community. He jokes sometimes along the lines of making a trans-positive statement followed by: "I'm apparently a transphobe & even I think this!"
Dave didn't have to punch down, he didn't have to include these jokes that hurt.
He addresses this as well. He brings up the (valid, IMO) point that "punching down" is a bit ridiculous when you say that to a black man in America, unless you haven't paid any attention to the last few years. He ends his show by asking the LGBTQ community to stop punching down on his community. You don't have to agree with that take, but it's poignant.
 
Never was a big fan of Chappelle, and from what I've read this whole kerfuffle strikes me as a "f**** you too! I can be just as mean and petty as you" to the twitterati.
Article in The Atlantic had an interesting take on the whole thing:
The Atlantic said:
I find myself startled by some of this reaction. I loved Chappelle’s Show, which ran from 2003 to 2006, but here’s a typical punch line from one of its most beloved recurring segments, “Charlie Murphy’s True Hollywood Stories”: “*****es, come over here and show Charlie Murphy your titties!” And here’s another: “*****, come over here and have sex with Charlie Murphy.” Was this what Jones had been rooting for? Did none of the recent critics of The Closer notice the way Chappelle has always talked about *****es—sorry, women? And yet that tone never stopped me from enjoying his comedy—or acknowledging that his jokes about white women came from his perspective as a Black American man. The suggestion seems to be that women, and in particular white women, are numerous and powerful enough to absorb a comedian’s casual hostility, while gay and, especially, trans people are not. But if there was a meeting where this was decided, no one invited me. Does Dave Chappelle’s attitude toward women offend me? Yes, to the extent that, if asked, I will say, “Dave Chappelle’s attitude toward women offends me. It’s a shame because he’s a good comic.” But there’s no need to upgrade that to “Dave Chappelle’s attitude toward women is so dangerous that his work ought to be suppressed and anyone connected to it should be shunned.”
...
Chappelle’s work offers us similar contradictions, and a similar Rorschach test. Is the story here “rich comedian attacks marginalized community” or “Black comedian attacks elite consensus”? That’s why The Closer is structured as a series of dares. Does this joke bother you? What about this one? Early on, the audience bridles a little at a joke about the Chinese origins of the coronavirus. Chappelle soon warns that it’s only going to get worse. Running through the culture war’s greatest hits, he dares critics to take unequal offense, and prove his point about a hierarchy of suffering.

And of course, some critics walked straight into the trap. The negative reaction to The Closer has revolved largely around what he says about LGBTQ people. Chappelle has always been clear about the political argument he is making with this material: In a few short years, gay- and trans-rights activism has achieved the kind of cultural veto that Black Americans have failed to win through decades of struggle. In Chappelle’s telling, no other movement has such power. The rapper DaBaby, censured for remarks about AIDS, was once involved in the fatal shooting of a Black man at a Walmart. (He was not charged in the death but was convicted of carrying a concealed weapon.) “Nothing bad happened to his career,” Chappelle says. “Do you see where I’m going with this?” In the United States, he says, you can shoot and kill a Black person, “but you better not hurt a gay person’s feelings.” And no other movement, Chappelle maintains, has been granted such immunity to criticism. Bashing feminists for their privilege is so common that I’m surprised Chappelle’s jokes about “white *****es get[ting] tear-gassed” during the Women’s March didn’t land him a book deal. The implicit hierarchy of suffering is also the point of his “space Jews” jokes, which rely on an anti-Semitic trope—Holocaust inversion, in which the oppressed people are reincarnated as the oppressor. The Closer is Dave Chappelle pushing all of our buttons, and inviting us to reflect on which ones provoke a reaction.
...
But I like that puzzle. Don’t you? We can’t say who the Bad Art Friend is, and we shouldn’t try to resolve The Closer into a simple story of victim and bully. First, because that appears to be the frame Chappelle wants, a funny guy defying the morality police, and the morality police will never win when they’re wagging fingers while he is making jokes. But also because any attempt to reduce the Chappelle story to a wealthy comedian attacking a marginalized community has to consider the show’s final section, which highlights the hypocrisy of those same critics. The story of Daphne Dorman, a trans woman who defended Chappelle online after the backlash to Sticks and Stones, ends with her being dragged on Twitter and her death by suicide. (Though Chappelle acknowledges that he doesn’t know what else was happening in her life, he insinuates a connection. “I bet dragging her didn’t help,” he says.) The special ends with Chappelle saying that Dorman was part of the same minority group as him: “my people”—comedians. He’s had enough of the “punching down.”
...
The story of Dorman, as presented in The Closer, is a brutal indictment of social-justice activism on the internet. If Chappelle’s comedy is “dangerous” because it could lead to real-world harm, then what the hell is the word for what happened to Dorman? After the latest special began airing, Dorman’s family supported Chappelle. “Daphne was in awe of Dave’s graciousness,” one of her sisters told The Daily Beast. “She did not find his jokes rude, crude, off-coloring, off-putting, anything. She thought his jokes were funny.”

And there’s the Rorschach test. Are Dave Chappelle’s jokes offensive, or are they funny? They’re both. Is he attacking a marginalized community, or a cabal of sadistic scolds? Both. People can be both. Chappelle is entirely right to indict would-be censors for their wild inconsistencies and their capricious attitude to offense. As a comedian, he is thrown against the bars of this illogical prison every day. Why are Caitlyn Jenner jokes more obvious grounds for cancellation than ones about white *****es getting tear-gassed? When is Dave Chappelle a Black comedian and when is he a rich comedian? Sometimes the ink blot won’t resolve into a neat outline. It remains, like life, a mess.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/10/dave-chappelle-the-closer/620364/

He ends his show by asking the LGBTQ community to stop punching down on his community.
Perhaps its because I avoid Twitter like the plague, or I'm not down with the LGBTQ scene, but is that really a thing? Gays et al punching down on blacks and minorities?
 
Doesn't most good stand up comedy "punch down" on someone or some group? Men, women, wives, husbands, bf/gf, conservatives, liberals, religious, atheists, etc. I don't know the man or his comedy. A tempest in a teapot. As for making money off this. I'm sure the notoriety will make him some money. Netflix only makes money off this if they get new paid subscribers. If I were to watch it, no additional money goes to Netflix. So the question for Netflix is: how many new subscribers did you get because you made this show available?
 
I did not feel punched down on, but perhaps I have thick skin. I guess I understood what he meant by "his people" in his closing remarks.
 
Yeah I saw that in his show when he was talking about the rapper who shot someone. I don’t totally agree with his take on this. Maybe if we compares similar things, that making racist statements is not taken as seriously as making anti-gay trans statements. Is that true? Roseanne lost her job over that. And there was the whole controversy over the New York Times writer who just criticized two Asian women, didn’t even say anything racist.

And the rapper also said he acted in self-defense, don’t know if that’s true. It is interesting that making offensive statements is seen as more serious, not killing someone. I’m just not convinced the gay and trans communities are given a special status.
 
It's another boring "controversy", which can't lead anywhere. Even compared to the Rowling stuff this seems to be small fry (at least Rowling is globally famous).
I never cared about stand up comedy, though. Seems to be a rather disreputable job (although I am sure it is very hard and requires talent). When your job is to pretty much be a clown for laughs, how many people really want to do it? Also, when the clown gets clout, they may regard themselves as spokespeople for a group, which makes it far worse (say Colbert).
 
I guess I could try finding some comedy that only “punches up” (I think the term is obnoxious.)

I mean hey, what’s the deal with rich white men with their top hats and their monocles? And wh—y do they keep holding everybody else back? Something has got to change!

And wh—o—o are these heterosexual Protestants? How come they’re so evil?

Probably no surprise in saying I didn’t find Bill Hicks funny.
 
He understands that there's jokes you don't make because they enable and comfort bad people in their hatred and bigotry. He's quit making certain kinds of joke as a result.

The issue is he doesn't think this applies to trans people. I'm not sure there's much more to it than that.
 
I feel like most people criticizing Chappelle's [latest] show online didn't actually watch it. He was massively supportive of the LGBTQ community. He jokes sometimes along the lines of making a trans-positive statement followed by: "I'm apparently a transphobe & even I think this!"
This is a common criticism of people who are actually criticising the show. I've seen it made a lot recently (and generally whenever something arguably offensive gets released and is popular).

It doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny. Among the people who work at Netflix who are criticising the special most definitely have seen the special. So all you're doing here is being dismissive of valid criticism by suggesting the people who made it don't know what they're talking about it.
 
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