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Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Apr 19, 2010.

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  1. corovanrobber

    corovanrobber King

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    just some hints: first prevent settling on resourses (i'm mostly about vibo valentia in italia, etc), second increase rate of willing to settle both carthage and alexandria to allow to take place in empty land (anyway those civs're dying in most of cases); third western iran should be also in war maps though higher stability penalty of mesopotamia is necessary to collapse byzantium historically more often.
    damn don't understand why is hispany so high in priority when these lands were lost shortly after justinian :lol:
     
  2. Gruekiller

    Gruekiller Back From The Beyond

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    I guess the areas are measured by how much, historically, Byzantium wanted to control those areas. But then, of course, you'd think that Persia, northern Italy, and the rest of the former WRE would be high-priority. :p
     
  3. Sikandar

    Sikandar Prince

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    Maybe a Pope?
     
  4. J. pride

    J. pride King

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    Alright so these are all the revisions that I think should be made for 600 ad Arabia and Middle East. (This is a long one, Feedback wud be appreaciated)

    Arabia starts out with 5 Camel Archers, 4 Longbowmen, Two Swordsmen, 3 Settlers and 2 Workers. Here how it think these units should spawn:
    1) Mecca should start out with a longbowmen and worker.
    2) When all the territories flip to the arabs, 4 camel archers should spawn: 2 near Libya and 2 in Persia ( I dont know if the Camel Archers can spawn ouside cities: if yes than the ones in Libya should spart south of Benghazi and the ones Persia should start on the desert oasis north of Sihraz).
    3) The swordsmen should be removed and the settlers can either be removed or start out in Baghdad and Cairo.
    4) In place of the swordsmen, a worker should spawn. Since that would make 2 workers; one should spawn in Baghdad and one in Cairo.
    5) As for the longbowmen; 2 should start in North Africa( to defend after the camel archers conquer Tripoli and Beng.) 1 should start in Baghdad to counteract the Byzantine and 2 in Iran to protect Samarkand after it is conquered by Arabs.
    I only tried to specify regions since i dont know if units can spawn anywhere or just in cities In think this would help since the arabs will the cities before the Barbarians. Maybe u could test it out as an Svn if its not too hard.

    Now as for the cities:
    1) Mecca should be nerfed (if i am right the population of Mecca only was never more than 50,000 for most of its history); Resources should be added near because although it becomes big it never truely becomes the most productive and largest city of the medival ages. (historically the first city to reach the population of 1 million). And is it possible to make Baghdad the capital?
    2) Anitoch should really be replaced with either Damascus or Aleppo. (Anitoch is to Damascus as Adrianpole is to Constantinople) you get the point right.
    3) There should be a better chance of Isfahan and Al-Uqsur being settled rather than Al-Kuwait or some other desert city. (I think thats where the two other settler should settle if possible.)
    4) Lastly if u do decide to make Baghdad more powerful make sure there is Barbarian pressure on the city in 1300 or it falls to the Turks; either will make serve the purpose
    ( Is it possible for a city to have certain resources from x year to x year) If it is that would be great in showing the rise and fall of Baghdad.And if u replace Anitoch with Damascus or Aleppo make sure it flips to the Turks.

    I dont think that would be required since Leoreth will add the Moors some times in the future.


    Feedback would be appreciated. Want do u guys think??

    Here are the pictures of the latest svn; it shows the problem with central asia, Tripoli, Tisfun (not strong enough) and Anitoch surving that long.Also notice in the last one how low the poplulation is for cairo and Baghdad compared to Athens and Constantinople and hinduism spreads into BARBARIAN central asia. (These are from Mali Mongol and turk spaw)
     

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  5. AdrienIer

    AdrienIer Deity

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    IIRC it's possible to spawn units anywhere since some modder (was it corossol ?) made the Mongols spawn with a few units north of Samarkand along the silk road.
    Your ideas about Arabia are good, but the balancing of Arabia is linked with the balancing of Byzancium so I'd like to see what really happens in the last svn versions in the middle east. Actually, the spawning of 3 settlers in Mecca, Baghdad and Cairo would probably give a less deterministic game since if the capitol is Cairo Arabia would rather settle north Africa and if the capitol is Baghdad they would go towards Persia and India.
     
  6. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    I have read through the notes of this mod, and I haven't encountered this, so... Why can I only move a maximum of 9 (or 10?) units at a time? It's highly annoying, does nothing to limit stack of dooms (which I rather like, but at least if it tried to prevent them, I could understand), and only makes the game more tedious. So, how do I remove this limit? Or am I doing something wrong?
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

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    This really sounds like it's only a coincidence and the problem is either your drivers or your mouse itself.

    Yeah, Vibo Valentia will be taken care of (it's Cosentia now anyway in the new city name map). Carthage shouldn't be settled that often because after it's settled it'll usually survive into the Middle Ages which isn't exactly historical. Good point about Alexandria though. I don't know about Western Iran, I tried to keep Byzantium defensive so their map only includes areas that really were controlled at some point.

    Not a bad idea, there's a generic Pope LH around which could be used for Alexander VI for example.

    Of course it's possible to spawn units anywhere. Still I'm against any special treatment for Arabia. So I can place more units in the cities that flip to them, but that's it.

    1. Yeah, Mecca will be nerfed, and it's possible to change the capital to Baghdad when it flips to the AI.
    2. I did some research and found out that Antioch was larger than Aleppo. And Damascus is just a bad city ingame.
    3. Yes, I think that'll happen by itself when the settlers don't spawn at Mecca anymore.
    4. I'm usually against that kind of massive scripting to achieve historical accuracy in such minor issues. Also in my opinion Baghdad has enough resources.

    Looks good, the Arabs even founded Isfahan. Religion spread to barbarian has to be equal for every religion because barbarian cities could be anywhere on the map.

    That's not a feature of this mod. Iirc it's a bug in RFC whose reason could never be found.
     
  8. KMRblue1027

    KMRblue1027 The Crown!

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    I'm pretty sure the stack control limit is in the global defines. It's set to 12 by default.
     
  9. Linkman226

    Linkman226 #anarchy

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    Could I help out on making the CityNameManager for the SVN and the next release? I'm already working on the CityNameManager project for regular RFC and it should b easy enough to WinMerge the files together.
     
  10. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    Pope Julius II was way more awesome and a better thematic fit for Italy than that scumbag piece of human filth Borgia.
     
  11. J. pride

    J. pride King

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    Im confused, so are u going to move their units to the flipped cities or just give them extra units. Because i'm not in favor of giving them any extra units. I want the arabs to conquer and improve (tiles) with what units they already have. Cud u please elaborate a bit?

    Ill just try to convince u one last time about Anitoch and Tisfun.

    1) On Anitoch, you are right as it was the 2nd largest city in the Byzantine empire with a population of 100,000. But after the Arab conquest the cities population fell and by 800-1000 ad Aleppo and Damascus took over Anitoch as the largest and most important cities in the region. Once a great metropolis of a half million people, it declined to insignificance during the Middle Ages because of repeated earthquakes, the slaughter of its inhabitants by a Mameluk army in 1268, and a change in trade routes, following the Mongol conquests, which then no longer passed through Antioch from the far east. And by 1200's the city was effectively destroyed by the Malmuks. A large part of why i dont want Anitoch is because it was destroyed before the spawn of turks (less than half way in the game; notice every other city in the game still exists today with the exception of natice americans).

    Aleppo and Damascus on the other hand, are one the oldest cities in the world. In byzantine era, Aleppo was the second most important city in syria (after anitoch). Under the arabs the city served as a regional center under the Caliphate and also under the zengids and the Ayubbids. Under the Turks, the city was the capital of the vilayat of syria. Even under france it was the capital of the largest province in the mandate of Syria. From 900 till today aleppo has been larger than Anitoch. A strong case can be made for Damascus as well, it was a major city under the Byzantines (not as important as aleppo and anitoch). afterwards, under the arabs it was the capital of the empire and has been the most important city of greater Syria ever since.

    In my games, i have several tweaked the resources around Damascus and it turned out pretty good and personally i would like to see it in the game because of its extremely high importance to the region (i think it can be done with just the moving of one or two resources). But if u are still not convinced Aleppo would be a good substitute.

    2) With the current Baghdad, it is extremely hard for the ai to take Baghdad to its true potential. It is quite easy for Rome, Constantinople to reach their and surpass true potential with all their resources and wonders. Rarely have i seen a Baghdad with a population larger than Constantinople in the Middle Ages. And almost never does it have the wonders (spiral minarat) or building to match those of other cities. This could be solved with replacing one of the oil resource with something else (iron, sheep, horse) and giving Baghdad a worker
     
  12. corovanrobber

    corovanrobber King

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    Tunis is settled by either arabs or no one, and arabs ain't gonna make it to tunisia with justinian's cities in the way. Have carthage or emptiness, although france can colonise algeria if not.

    Now that i think of it, screw tunis and carthage altogether. Algiers is f*cking awesome, vive la France!
     
  13. J. pride

    J. pride King

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    Leoreth is taking care of Byzantine cities in North Africa. A french Algeria is would be unhistorical until late game. And besides Leoreth is making a non playable moor civ that will settle Tunis and Algeirs. Im looking forward to it:)
     
  14. Sikandar

    Sikandar Prince

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    I think France ought to try to invade the Levant and North Africa during the Middle Ages to simulate the various Crusades.
     
  15. The Turk

    The Turk Deity

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    Is he working on it now? And if he is making a Moorish civilization, you should know that the Moors never settled or conquered Algeirs. They had control of Morocco and Spain (and later on just Southern Spain)
    But to make the Moor's work, you would need to have the Spanish spawn in 1085 in Toledo. Doing this though, you would need to move their spawn date, but overall I think it would be worth it.
     
  16. Sikandar

    Sikandar Prince

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    I think the Franks should spawn around 500 and only split off into France and Germany if they collapse.
     
  17. J. pride

    J. pride King

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    Nah, he didnt start working on it yet, i asked him before. But Turk remember they are trying to represent all berber group (just like the celts represent all celtic tribes and cities). I think we should stick with this unless you have a better idea to settle all the important cities in North Africa. (besides there were a few berber kingdoms that united alll of North Africa like the Almorovids, Almohads, and the Zirids. To me it makes sense.

    For the cities Leoreth said
     
  18. Linkman226

    Linkman226 #anarchy

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    Pope Julius II was a corrupt scumbag himself.

    Honestly Poland should be implemented before any Berber/ Moorish kingdom. It would help game balance a LOT more.

    As for the Byzantines, more suggestions:

    Why so many cities at spawn? Remove some of those that are just extraneous and have crap locations. The amount of overlap is ridiculous.
     
  19. corovanrobber

    corovanrobber King

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    This is so complicated. I just want that area settled, lol.
     
  20. civ_king

    civ_king Deus Caritas Est

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    Pope Julius II was a major patron of the arts, he resolved serious tensions in Italian aristocracy, strove for an independent Italy, anti-simony etc.
     
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