Dawn of Civilization - an RFC modmod by Leoreth

[Linkman226]

He hasn't worked on a new dynamic naming scheme yet; the old system isn't very supportive of changing names after a certain date.

 

[Leoreth]

Just played this modmod for the first time as Rome. Here are my observations.

*I like the unique Dawn of Man texts, they add some flavour to the game.
*A lot of the Civilopedia texts are missing, are they going to be added? Same with leader texts, when the Phoenican leader contacted me she said nothing. (also, what horny male did made that leaderhead =/)
*The UP didn't trigger although I did declare war on Greece and Egypt.
*Greece owns a city in Central Asia for some reason.
*Babylon apparently founded Zoroastrianism, Persia didn't even have it at my spawn. Is this supposed to happen?
*The new UHV screen looks good, nice job.

- good, most of them have been written without much consideration, so if you have any suggestions to improve them, let me know.
- yes, but that's not on a very high priority for me now, same with the diplomacy texts (although I consider the latter to be more important).
- yeah, it's disabled in 1.73 accidentally.
- was it Marakanda per chance?
- no, that's even highly unlikely, but sometimes it happens.
- credit for that goes to embryodead, who invented it for SoI, I merely adapted it.

So why not instead use unique names, to call the "Mughals", "The Delhi Sultanate" when they spawn, and then later change the name to "The Mughal Empire". Does that not sound like a better plan anyway?

Yes, and it's not as if I haven't had that plan already.

Also, yes you are right Leoreth, in saying that Debal (Daibul) has very little mention of it anywhere, so why not use Thatta? Shift the city one tile to the East, lower its defense, and I'm sure the Arabs will capture it more often.

If you're honest, you wouldn't know about Thatta either if it wasn't for SoI.

And finally when will you be adding Orthodoxy, because it can't be "that" hard to include it, is it? Because currently playing as the Russians, Turks, Arabs, its annoying to realize that you are part of the Apopolistic palace. Also are there any plans to limit German growth too far into Eastern Europe/Russia pre-WW2?

Almost nothing is "hard", the problem is the necessary effort, and actually I'd prefer hard tasks to time-consuming at any day of the week.

The German situation will be dealt with when I implement their split.

 

[Ekolite]

Really looking forward to the German split!

If there's space an independent city representing Poland would probably be a bonus, as it would prevent Austria/HRE expanding too far east, and also unrealistic early confrontation with Russia until later on in the game.

 

[J. pride]

That's not exactly a bug report (please do me the favor and stick to the right thread). But Byzantium has its own city name map, and always had. I've adapted some renames, but that's it. Which specific tiles/cities are you concerned with?

Sorry for posting in the wrong thread but all of Western/Northern Balkans city name map is messed up completely. These are a few things I propose you do to make Balkans better; The aim should be to comfortably settle at least two cities in the Balkans proper as the Byzantines or the Ottomans. I know that you are not working on Europe yet but the Balkans need some attention:

-The city name map is messed up for the Ottomans in the Balkans; The Byzantines on the other hand don't even have a cityname map for the north western part of the Balkans.

-It would be good to turn one of the Adriatic tiles into a land tiles and remove one mountain tile. (shown in map below)

-Add one food resource in the the North Western Balkans (I added a sheep as you will see)

Byzantine City Name Map:


(Some spelling might be a bit off like Thessaloniki which is supposed to be Thessalonike but these are cities that were already present but i had to move them; the cities that were added on the other hand are fine)

Ottoman City Name Map:

Theres one revision I would like to make to the Ottoman map: change Manastir to Üsküp.

Name Changes on Conquest:
Serdica:
Sofya/Ottomans
Sofija / Russians
Sofia/ all other European powers
Scupi:
Üsküb/Ottomans
Skopje/ all Europeans
Skop'e/Russians
Scodra:
Iskodra/Ottomans
Singidunum:
Belgrad/Ottomans, Germans and Russians.
Aquincum:
Budapest and all its variations (whatever Budapest is called in Turkish, German etc)
Vindobona:
Vienna and whatever its called in German, Turkish etc.
Dyrrachium:
Tiran/Ottoman
Chersonesos:
Feodosiya/Ottomans
Sevastopol/Russia
Theodosia:
Feodosiya/Ottomans
Simferopol/Russia
Simferopol or Sevastopol:
Feodosiya/Ottomans




-Also If I would change the Balkans settler map a little bit too, to make sure that atleast two of the following cities get built (Bucharest, Sofia, Belgrade, Adrianopolis, Thessaloniki). These are one of the most important cities in the Byzantine Empire (except Bucharest) and the Ottoman Empire and sadly none of them get founded.

-Have you though about preplacing Adrianopolis or Thessoloniki for the Byzantines; Imo Adrianopolis is a bit tricky but Thessoloniki is not hard at all, all you would have to do is move the fish or the clam from Athens northwards. I say this because Athens in some of my games grows extremely large even though it was a minor city for most of post-classical history.

Thessaloniki added:


Adrianople added:


In each case Constantinople only loses two tiles; if you add Thessolonike you can move the clam from Athens north and if you add Adrianople, you can give it Constantinople's sheep but in return Constantinople can get Athens clam which will be moved north. The only loser in each case is Athens but currently Athens has too much food in it cross anyways (for the 600 ad spawn) and I have seen a bunch of games where it reached population 9-12 which was larger than Constantinople.

I can reduce their naval focus. But how large are they when they get so advanced? Usually the Mughal AI only takes over the Deccan very slowly now.

This was 1500, at the Dutch spawn. I believe this was before you added the Deccan cities so i might have to check again how it turns out. But i recommend you nerf their naval focus along with tech anyways.

Really looking forward to the German split!

If there's space an independent city representing Poland would probably be a bonus, as it would prevent Austria/HRE expanding too far east, and also unrealistic early confrontation with Russia until later on in the game.

I too cannot wait for that; hope it takes place in the near future

 

[Gruekiller]

If it helps any, Turkish for Vienna is 'Viyana' and Turkish for Budapest is 'Budapeşte'.

 

[Leoreth]

If there's space an independent city representing Poland would probably be a bonus, as it would prevent Austria/HRE expanding too far east, and also unrealistic early confrontation with Russia until later on in the game.

Yeah, that's the plan.

@J. Pride:
Your Byzantine city names are in Latin while I'm already using Medieval Greek. Also, Thessalonike is not such a good idea since it's only an obstacle if you're going for the Constantinople UHV goal.

 

[Caesar Augustus]

Really looking forward to the German split!

If there's space an independent city representing Poland would probably be a bonus, as it would prevent Austria/HRE expanding too far east, and also unrealistic early confrontation with Russia until later on in the game.

IMO a indy in Poland wouldn't really slow either of them down, as they'd probably take it relatively quickly. It could also end up encouraging odd results. We're all used to the Byzantines taking Kiev. so it wouldn't surprise me if they or the Vikings ended up with the Polish city which IMO is worse than the consequences of the HRE expanding east too early.

That said, a Polish civ might stand a chance of doing just that and I wouldn't be opposed to one. Poland-Lithuania was a large and important part of European history and there's room for 2-3 decent cities within its area of influence. I'd certainly prefer to see Poland over Canada

 

[Leoreth]

Never said it was going to be independent

 

[J. pride]

Your Byzantine city names are in Latin while I'm already using Medieval Greek. Also, Thessalonike is not such a good idea since it's only an obstacle if you're going for the Constantinople UHV goal.

Point taken about Thessaloniki but I don't have a clue on where to find the Medieval Greek names; I know this might sound a bit stupid but are you sure that those cities had medieval Greek Names? Anyways, I think if you cant find them then these names are better than anything and also its not as if most of these cities will be founded anyways except for a few like Singidunum which i think is extremely important to have.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

You ought to make Poland's 3rd UHV condition to be the first to complete the Apollo Program.

 

[mayor]

*A lot of the Civilopedia texts are missing, are they going to be added? Same with leader texts, when the Phoenican leader contacted me she said nothing. (also, what horny male did made that leaderhead =/)

- yes, but that's not on a very high priority for me now, same with the diplomacy texts (although I consider the latter to be more important).

Do you have a list of entries that haven't been added yet? I would be willing to help out with that. I'll probably have at least one more free evening a week in the next couple of weeks.

maybe with a list in the OP people can spend lost hours helping you out with that.

 

[MuppyP]

- good, most of them have been written without much consideration, so if you have any suggestions to improve them, let me know.
- yes, but that's not on a very high priority for me now, same with the diplomacy texts (although I consider the latter to be more important).
- yeah, it's disabled in 1.73 accidentally.
- was it Marakanda per chance?
- no, that's even highly unlikely, but sometimes it happens.
- credit for that goes to embryodead, who invented it for SoI, I merely adapted it.

*Okay, I'll think about it. =)
*I guess it's one of these high-effort-low-yield tasks then?
*Yeah, I saw that in the bug thread, will probably download the fix later.
*Yes, it was. How does that happen?

 

[Leoreth]

Point taken about Thessaloniki but I don't have a clue on where to find the Medieval Greek names; I know this might sound a bit stupid but are you sure that those cities had medieval Greek Names? Anyways, I think if you cant find them then these names are better than anything and also its not as if most of these cities will be founded anyways except for a few like Singidunum which i think is extremely important to have.

Don't know if there are medieval Greek names for them (I guess there are, but it's hard to find them). But I'd like to have them consistent, if further research yields nothing we could also faux-Grecianize them, e.g. Singidunum -> Singidunon

Do you have a list of entries that haven't been added yet? I would be willing to help out with that. I'll probably have at least one more free evening a week in the next couple of weeks.

maybe with a list in the OP people can spend lost hours helping you out with that.

Sure! Coming up with appropriate text is what keeps me from adding them, not the process of including it into the game. I'll open a thread on that later.

*Okay, I'll think about it. =)
*I guess it's one of these high-effort-low-yield tasks then?
*Yeah, I saw that in the bug thread, will probably download the fix later.
*Yes, it was. How does that happen?

The Greeks just like to take over independent cities in that area. I like to think of it of the Greco-Bactrian kingdom

And as already said above, diplomacy texts are kinda high effort, but only writing them, not including them into the game.

 

[ramz711]

Well, Leoreth, if you want to send me a list of the LHs that still need diplo texts, I'll write them up for you. Put my English degree to good use.

 

[Leoreth]

Definitely. I'll compile a list and post them in a new thread here, so everyone can participate

 

[MuppyP]

Definitely. I'll compile a list and post them in a new thread here, so everyone can participate

Oh nice! Maybe you could do Civilopedia entries in the same thread?

Also, I played an Egypt game until about 1500 today. Things that drew my attention:
*Greece settled Anatolia
*And the Phoenicans settled Sicily. I really like how they behave in this mod.
*...but they never waged war with Rome, so Rome never acquired Sicily.
*Babylonia was just extremely overpowered. They settled three cities in the Middle East, conquered Phoenica, held against Persia, won wars against Arabia and only collapsed on 1350. I hope they're in for some serious nerfing.
*Arabia attacked me with only one Camel Archer when I refused the flip and for some reason had a fortified swordsman at Suez for 400 years.
*The Vikings are also doing very good, holding Hamburg, St. Petersburg and another northern Russian city.
*When I attacked the Inca they somehow had a Navajo war elephant. This can't be right.
*Also is there any way to make Zoroastrianism disappear when Christianity or Islam spreads? It just feeld weird having Zoroastrianist Rome and Constantinopel in the 15th century.

Edit: Also, I assume you like to hear about this kind of things? If I'm abused as a beta tester, I at least want to do it right. =)

 

[AOS9001]

*Also is there any way to make Zoroastrianism disappear when Christianity or Islam spreads? It just feeld weird having Zoroastrianist Rome and Constantinopel in the 15th century.

It is a little weird, but it makes sense. Even today, Mumbai has a considerable Zoroastrian population, who fled there from the Muslim invasion of Persia. I like to think that Zoroastrianism in Rome or Constantinople means that there are little pockets of refugees from afar settling down in those cities, much like Jews after the Diaspora.

And if you don't like that, I'm pretty sure there is a plan to implement the inquisitor unit from RFC:E and SoI to this mod.

 

[J. pride]

Don't know if there are medieval Greek names for them (I guess there are, but it's hard to find them). But I'd like to have them consistent, if further research yields nothing we could also faux-Grecianize them, e.g. Singidunum -> Singidunon

I guess you could do that, But Im sorry i would not be able to help you with this as I could not find any city names for medieval greek and I am not familiar enough with it it to make city names myself. On the other hand, there are only like a half dozen names so it shouldnt take you long to "Grecianize" them. In the meanwhile do you think you will update the Ottoman city map? Also do you like my recommendation on the terrain changes to the Balkans or is it not worth the effort?

It is a little weird, but it makes sense. Even today, Mumbai has a considerable Zoroastrian population, who fled there from the Muslim invasion of Persia. I like to think that Zoroastrianism in Rome or Constantinople means that there are little pockets of refugees from afar settling down in those cities, much like Jews after the Diaspora.

Talking about Zoroastrianism, Leoreth can you implement several religion changes in 600 ad:

-Add Zoroastarianism to Baghdad.
-Add Zoroastrianism and Buddhism to Qandahar.
-Add Zoroastarianism to Peshawar.
-Add Zoroastarianism and Buddhism to Merv, Samarkand and Kashgar.
-Remove Hinduism from Karachi and add Buddhism.

I reccommend making these changes since putting these religions there is more historical than Hinduism or Christianity spreading there which they inevitably do. Also there should be system that adds Islam (if the Arabs dont do this already) removes unhistorical religions from these cities after a certain date much like how it is with the Ottomans in Anatolia. It is annoying to have Buddhism be in Peshawar and Hinduism in Karachi in the 1300 ads.

I recommend 900 ad check which adds Islam and removes every religion except Islam in the Persia, Centrial Asia, Indus region.

 

[mayor]

if you need someone to "Grecianize" things you might want to ask Christos200
He's a Greek and rather proud of it. He might be willing to help you out with that.

 

[civ_king]

It is a little weird, but it makes sense. Even today, Mumbai has a considerable Zoroastrian population, who fled there from the Muslim invasion of Persia. I like to think that Zoroastrianism in Rome or Constantinople means that there are little pockets of refugees from afar settling down in those cities, much like Jews after the Diaspora.

And if you don't like that, I'm pretty sure there is a plan to implement the inquisitor unit from RFC:E and SoI to this mod.

Considerable Zoroastrian population? You mean like all 5,000 of them? There's only like 200,000 Zoroastrians alive and the number drops by the day