Democrats secretly plotting to kill old people: Yes/No?

Democrats secretly plotting to kill old people: Yes/No?


  • Total voters
    50

Miles Teg

Nuclear Powered Mentat
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
5,817
Location
One Flag Short of a Theme Park
Right, I can hear you guffawing at the thread title from here, so let me explain. You know how the right's gotten a little crazy since Obama got elected? I mean, the Left was pretty out there after Bush got elected, but this time, it looks like the minority party is minority enough that these idiots actually comprise a critical base of support. So, you get things like the birth certificate "controversy", allegations that the president is a secret Muslim, allot of confused rambling about socialism, communism, and even Hitler comparisons. And of course you've got people like Bachmann out of Minnesota, who's clearly off her meds.

But this takes the cake, and you aren't going to hear about it on most decent media sites, partially because they're craziness quota is filled by the Birther reporting. But here's the thing. There is actually a group of agitators and politicians spreading the idea that Democratic attempts at health-care reform will mandate killing old people. Seriously, this crap is everywhere. Obviously, the Fox News pundits and radio shock jocks are lapping it up, but actual Congressman are spreading the same idea. Let's look at some examples. First, while their isn't much actual content behind this scare mongering, the closest thing this idea has to a mannifesto is this chain email
Spoiler :
"I hope you can take time to listen to this. No wonder President Obama is trying to push through his health care plan so quickly. This part of it is unbelievable and scary!!
On page 425 it says in black and white that EVERYONE on Social Security (will include all Senior Citizens and SSI people) will go to MANDATORY counseling every 5 years to learn and to choose from ways to end your suffering (and your life). Health care will be denied based on age. 500 Billion will be cut from Seniors healthcare. The only way for that to happen is to drastically cut health care, the oldest and the sickest will be cut first. Paying for your own care will not be an option.
Now, CALL YOUR PEOPLE IN WASHINGTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell them to read page 425 if they don't read anything else. Surely some of them have parents.
ON PAGE 425 OF OBAMA'S HEALTH CARE BILL the Federal Government will require EVERYONE who is on Social Security to undergo a counseling session every 5 years with the objective being that they will explain to them just how to end their own life earlier. Yes...They are going to push SUICIDE to cut medical spending!"
Wondering what the dreaded page 425 actually covers? Living wills. Nothing about choosing how you want to die, just sensible stuff.

Now, those congressman I was mentioning? First of all, we've got Virginia Foxx of North Carolina. You may remember her as the woman insisting that the killing of Matthew Sheppard for being gay was a "hoax". Alternatively, you may remember her for her resolution praising the American Christmas Tree industry, or her principled stand against extending evil legislation like the Voting Rights Act. Here's her insightful view of healthcare

Ok, Foxx is pretty crazy. But what about Lou Gohmert? A relatively normal Republican, otherwise only notable out of whack for making disparaging remarks about Chinese cuisine. Here's his take on the matter, from an interview on Alex Jone's radio show:

GOHMERT: We’ve been battling this socialist health care, the nationalization of health care, that is going to absolutely kill senior citizens. They’ll put them on lists and force them to die early because they won’t get the treatment as early as they need. [...] I would rather stop this socialization of health care because once the government pays for your health care, they have every right to tell you what you eat, what you drink, how you exercise, where you live. [...] But if we’re going to pay 700 million dollars like we voted last Friday to put condoms on wild horses, and I know it just says an un-permanent enhanced contraception whatever the heck that is. I guess it follows that they’re eventually get around to doing it to us.

Am I the only one who feels kind of betrayed here? I like opposition. I think that a competition of ideas will produce a better America. I don't think the Democrats have all the answers, and I certainly don't trust them with sole control over the reigns of power. So even if I primarily identify with the Democrats, I want the Republicans to give them a good fight every step of the way, and even take over once in a while.

But this is absolutely nuts. The US needs a loyal opposition, and the Republicans are playing around with delusional conspiracy theories, ridiculous pandering to the their shrinking base, and delusions of relevancy.

I mean, for chrissakes, how do these people come up with these things. Obama wants to pass healthcare form, not out of altruism, or a arrogance, pandering to the base, or any of a dozen of other reasons, but because his deepest wish is to kill old people? When does that start making sense?
 
I keep getting confused about the Republicans (and many Democrats, but lately the former) much in the same way as when I watch King of the Hill. I can't tell if it's idiotic or some genius parody. And that makes me uncomfortable. But I think in the case of politics it's the former, sadly. The fear mongering, the policy of being the loudest to speak, appeals to emotion, all this extremely irrational behavior by the people who held power the past 8 years. Either they are really committed to keeping things as they like, in these times fringe groups get voices, or the party is falling apart.
All in all it's a great show. Just a shame I'm living in it.
 
Jeebus Cripes, this is just getting worse every day :eek:
I like opposition. I think that a competition of ideas will produce a better America. I don't think the Democrats have all the answers, and I certainly don't trust them with sole control over the reigns of power. So even if I primarily identify with the Democrats, I want the Republicans to give them a good fight every step of the way, and even take over once in a while.
Well said. Often forgotten is the fact that both the ruling and the opposition have responsibilities, not just the ruling party. The opposition doesn't get a Carte Blanche in simply attacking the party in power any way possible.
 
I can only hope so:p

No disrespect to old people, but I've always thought we got it backwards. Medicare should cover all children under 18 then move up that age once the money was there. We should be helping the younger generations make it to adulthood not help grandpa live to 90 and still be able to get erections(at least not until everyone else was covered)
 
Out of pragmatism, I suggest rebuking them with something like this, because they're unlikely to listen to plain "you're wrong, stop it" stuff.
This one seems especially appropriate on several points:
Proverbs 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
 
Secretly plotting? No, of course not. Will it be an unfortunate result of a health care overhaul? Possibly, but only in the same sense that the FDA's extensive drug testing policies possibly result in more people dying that would have been saved by the quicker release of a new drug than would be dead as a result of taking an incompletely-tested-and-later-found-to-be-risky drug.
 
I keep getting confused about the Republicans (and many Democrats, but lately the former) much in the same way as when I watch King of the Hill. I can't tell if it's idiotic or some genius parody. And that makes me uncomfortable. But I think in the case of politics it's the former, sadly. The fear mongering, the policy of being the loudest to speak, appeals to emotion, all this extremely irrational behavior by the people who held power the past 8 years. Either they are really committed to keeping things as they like, in these times fringe groups get voices, or the party is falling apart.
All in all it's a great show. Just a shame I'm living in it.

A shame? This makes tens of millions of souls votes up for grabs, potentially! Hopefully we'll see new parties emerge or form, or, even better, more drastic action!
 
I can't tell if it's idiotic or some genius parody.

This is an excellent point. With the election of Barack Obama right-wingers seem to have entered a baroque period, wherein it is impossible to parody them.

Cleo
 
Both parties hate old people. The Democrats by universal healthcare, and the Republicans by preventing us from becoming old in the first place.
 
Due to the tough on crime, pro death penalty stances of the GOP, I'm suprised most of us would make it to old age to worry about the Democrats killing us off. Most of us should either be executed or dead in the moat of some redneck's castle by age 40.
 
I wasn't able to find the original part of the proposal to figure out if the whole thing isn't invented from scratch. So I figure it probably is. It would be on par for the way those people act.

That said, there's nothing wrong with death with dignity, rather than spending millions of dollars to gain possibly months of life in a hospital bed tied to life support.
 
No, no, no, Miles. The Republicans are right. It would kill old people. Not directly, but because they can't wait.

America doesn't have the best health care by results. It has the best health care by low wait times. We absolutely pay through the nose for those low wait times, but we NEED them.

Why? Some European socialists say it's because we're just impatient. Or stupid. What they don't recognize is that we have to get back to work so we don't lose our job, and thus our health insurance. It's certainly not likely that insurance has a generous sick-leave policy.

It's a very simple and sensible system, really. And "uniquely American", which is apparently *always* a good thing.

Of course much of that doesn't apply to retired old people. I guess they're just impatient.
 
Tarquelne, while I disagree with you that health reform would increase wait times, that's simply not what this conspiracy theory is about. They aren't saying that the healthcare plan would indirectly kill some people, they're saying that everyone will have to choose how they want to die.
 
Tarquelne, while I disagree with you that health reform would increase wait times, that's simply not what this conspiracy theory is about. They aren't saying that the healthcare plan would indirectly kill some people, they're saying that everyone will have to choose how they want to die.

I'm very happy that you're treating my contribution with the care and attention it deserves. But nevertheless I disagree: Making people choose doesn't contradict what I say. It's just liberals way of rubbing it in. Democrats are sadists. I'm pretty sure it's my BFF Ann's next book. Or maybe she already wrote it, hard to keep track...
 
I'm disappointed people are taking the poll seriously and voting no. :(
 
No one is plotting to kill anyone. The bill states:

Advance Care Planning Consultation- Would Provide Seniors With Professional Advice On Will Preparation, Power Of Attorney, And Other Complicated Issues.

Medicare Will Pay For Increased Counseling If The Senior Citizen Becomes Ill And Would Like Additional Information. All this says is if you want information on end of life issues, as many states do, medicare will provide it. Where I live there is a stipulation for Doctor assisted suicide which has been used a few times.

I think the Republicans are just trying to do what they can to make Obama look like an ineffectual leader so they can get elected. I think it is time for the American people to stand up and say that they want socialized medicine... Just like Congress gets.
 
Top Bottom