Do white people have a mostly positive or negative effect on America?

[Yeekim]

i just am amazed that they don't even want a few hundreds of immigrants (THAT is indeed racist, and not about democratic decisions at all). Baltic microstates/Finland, Poland, Hungary, Austria and such nations are just openly racist at this point.

National governments' position in the European Union Justice and Home Affairs Council majority vote to relocate 120,000 refugees:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europ...ajority_vote_to_relocate_120,000_refugees.svg

 

[adcarrymaokai]

The US government and US academics routinely judge the whole planet according to their standards, and try to explain to other countries and cultures why they are racist and sexist and violators of human rights and should all just yearn to be a multicultural paradise like the US.

I can't speak for the government for I am not the government (and also, are you taking Trump's administration seriously?), but can you provide some examples of serious US academics trying to impose US-centric standards on the rest of the world? Because that's just not academic at all.

 

[Traitorfish]

I identify as white, and I don't see any problem with it. My people weren't considered white a hundred years ago, but were quickly absorbed into whiteness to set them against black and brown people, and at this point in time anyone of European descent is automatically white.

I bet the same people who get offended when being called "white" because "ThE iRiSh WeRe SlAvEs ToO!" call everyone black, asian, and 'hispanic" without considering how Chinese/Japanese folks are treated differently from Filipinos or Indians today in 2018, or that black people may have roots in various different tribes of Africa. I mean, being mad at being considered white is itself a manifestation of privilege. It's like a rich person getting mad for being called wealthy.

There's a difference, surely, between regarding something as a socially-accurate description, and regarding it as a positive identity to be upheld and reproduced? That's the point that is being made, when people talk about disavowing whiteness, not getting fussy about it because your grandad was Lithuanian or whatever.

 

[luiz]

I can't speak for the government for I am not the government (and also, are you taking Trump's administration seriously?), but can you provide some examples of serious US academics trying to impose US-centric standards on the rest of the world? Because that's just not academic at all.

How about, as an easy example, all the times American academics criticize the French concept of secularism and say they should be like the US instead?

https://www.google.fr/amp/s/foreign...rench-secular-soul-laicite-charlie-hebdo/amp/

I mean, telling other nations how they should be is a timeless American tradition, so now it's true that the whole world loves to tell Americans how they should be as well.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

If you bothered looking up how the US Census Bureau defines "white" in the 21-st century, you would find the following:

• White. A person having origins in any of the original peoples of Europe, the Middle East, or North Africa. It includes people who indicate their race as "White" or report entries such as Irish, German, English, Scandinavian, Scottish, Lebanese, Near Easterner, Arab, or Polish.

So yeah, Turkish people are ethnically "white" in the United States. The only reason why they aren't (yet) considered fully white is Islamophobia and Islamoracism.


That's not a strawman. That's a frequent white people argument, and since I live in the US, I just see it myself. Do you live in the US, btw? If not, maybe it's not your place to talk.

And while it's true that racial categories aren't stable and change over time, I am talking about them today, in 2018. I am not debating about race in the 19-th century, for the record. Plus, what is wealthy is also relative to the overall wealth of the masses. Back in the day someone was wealthy just owning a cottage and 3 cows, but it's not so now.

Yes, I am quite aware of the US Census Bureau's definition. I am also quite certain that the majority of US Americans definitely do not consider Egyptians/Lebanese/Moroccans as white. That would be delusional.

I also don't have to be a US citiziens to comment on racism (in general or in the US, doesn't really matter), that's just dumb. You don't have to be European to critisize the EU. You don't have to be Jewish to comment on Israeli foreign policy.

Honestly, pretty tired of uppity clueless Europeans trying to teach us about our racial problems. Like... sort your own issues, boo, before coming for us. Last I visited, Polish and other Eastern Europeans worked at hotels and in other service jobs, while Turks, Arabs, and blacks were harassed by the police in their ghettos, while European proud bois are marching in the streets trying to reclaim "Aryan" Europe.

The only time Europeans are proud of those African immigrants is when they win a soccer match, but that's none of my business.

Yeah, but I am originally from Europe, and yet you won't see me going around giving advice on how Europeans should define their racial categories. But people from Europe feel entitled teaching us about racism.

maybe if you want people to only talk about their country, their people, on your grounds, then the internet just isn't for you

 

[yung.carl.jung]

I think that racism (and the debate about it) is very different in the US and in Europe. For starters, virtually all (but not entirely all) euro countries are based historically on specific "ethnic groups" (not examining national mythology here; just the groups/language/history). Furthermore, there wasn't a significantly large ethnic minority in the surviving states (the multi-ethnic empires were split at some point, and so was Yugoslavia).
Imo there is more (and worse, in general) racism in Europe than in the US. But there is also far less influence from Europe to how anyone deals with racism, whereas the US actively exports its multicultural dogma, which in many cases is not viable in euro countries. I mean... i do identify the many eu countries that hate immigrants as racist, but i wouldn't force them to be actually multicultural; i just am amazed that they don't even want a few hundreds of immigrants (THAT is indeed racist, and not about democratic decisions at all). Baltic microstates/Finland, Poland, Hungary, Austria and such nations are just openly racist at this point.

very much agree there. I would even go one step farther and say that racism (white this, blacks that) has only recently gained popularity at all (as have white power movements). Europe is into different forms of discrimination:

localism, ethnic tribalism, islamophobia, classism, poor shaming, anti semitism, eurocentrism..

the whole "x skincolor is objectively less intelligent and needs to stop breeding" kind of scientific racism is slowly creeping towards Europe, though.

I had a good think last night, about Sam Harris, Charles A. Murray and their ilk. they're the avant garde of racism. they scientifically legitimize notions of IQ measuring a persons worth for society, they basically plow the land for the racists to sow their seeds. this kind of IQ-as-end-all-be-all/productivity/western civilization(®) movement could be extremely harmful if it gathered more steam.

I can't speak for the government for I am not the government (and also, are you taking Trump's administration seriously?), but can you provide some examples of serious US academics trying to impose US-centric standards on the rest of the world? Because that's just not academic at all.

when a group of people has the power to literally level the entire planet (which they have liberally used before) at their disposal then I have a really hard time not giving a ****

 

[Lexicus]

I had a good think last night, about Sam Harris, Charles A. Murray and their ilk. they're the avant garde of racism. they scientifically legitimize notions of IQ measuring a persons worth for society, they basically plow the land for the racists to sow their seeds. this kind of IQ-as-end-all-be-all/productivity/western civilization(®) movement could be extremely harmful if it gathered more steam.

Interesting, I read an entire podcast conversation between Harris and Ezra Klein yesterday. I concluded that Sam Harris completely lacks a sense of history. I think he's really ignorant of a lot of it.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Interesting, I read an entire podcast conversation between Harris and Ezra Klein yesterday. I concluded that Sam Harris completely lacks a sense of history. I think he's really ignorant of a lot of it.

that's incredibly weird. I actually stumbled among that same podcast yesterday. do we share the same benelovant all-knowing algorhythm, perhaps?

 

[Lexicus]

that's incredibly weird. I actually stumbled among that same podcast yesterday. do we share the same benelovant all-knowing algorhythm, perhaps?

Maybs. I think what happened was that I looked up the poll in the OP after someone posted a screenshot of the Twitter poll, found a Vox article about it which I posted, and that Vox article contained a link to the transcript of the podcast posted on Vox.

Again my impression from it was that Harris isn't a scientific racist, just a credulous idiot who can't recognize scientific racism when it dances naked in front of him, because he's almost totally ignorant of the relevant history.

 

[danjuno]

Yes, I am quite aware of the US Census Bureau's definition. I am also quite certain that the majority of US Americans definitely do not consider Egyptians/Lebanese/Moroccans as white. That would be delusional.

Yeah, race is an utter mess of a social construct, so it's little surprise bureaucrats can't keep up. Right now, most Americans would say race = color, whereas 19th century American definitions of race were all over the place. Theodore Roosevelt is said to have refered to Irish Presbyterians as a race.

But honestly, if we go off the whole race = color thing, are Southern Europeans even white?

 

[Archon_Wing]

I dunno, people regardless of color have had a pretty bad result on the world.

I think this question is actually posed by our secret Robotic overlords that are deciding if it is time to kill all humans.

 

[yung.carl.jung]

Yeah, race is an utter mess of a social construct, so it's little surprise bureaucrats can't keep up. Right now, most Americans would say race = color, whereas 19th century American definitions of race were all over the place. Theodore Roosevelt is said to have refered to Irish Presbyterians as a race.

But honestly, if we go off the whole race = color thing, are Southern Europeans even white?

I agree wholly with your post. As for the bolded part, I would say no, not really. To me southern Italians/Greeks look a lot more like people from the middle east than they do like your average Sven or your average Hans.

Maybs. I think what happened was that I looked up the poll in the OP after someone posted a screenshot of the Twitter poll, found a Vox article about it which I posted, and that Vox article contained a link to the transcript of the podcast posted on Vox.

Again my impression from it was that Harris isn't a scientific racist, just a credulous idiot who can't recognize scientific racism when it dances naked in front of him, because he's almost totally ignorant of the relevant history.

You give him the benefit of the doubt, which is being nice. I don't, but that might just be because I hate his dumb face

 

[adcarrymaokai]

How about, as an easy example, all the times American academics criticize the French concept of secularism and say they should be like the US instead?

https://www.google.fr/amp/s/foreign...rench-secular-soul-laicite-charlie-hebdo/amp/

That's just an opinion piece written by one person. Where is "all the times"? Can you provide a sufficiently big sample size that we can draw conclusions about the larger population.

By the way, I am not denying US cultural imperialism and the attempt to establish a political hegemony over the rest of the world, especially with Trump in the White House, but making an intentionally faulty argument with someone on the Internet because you don't like it being made towards you is accomplishing... what exactly?

How did this conversation even start? I made a comment about the official US definition of whiteness, and someone decided to teach me a geography lesson? To what end? The poll was also very clearly US-centric, which is why it operates the term "white" in the first place.

 

[cardgame]

As has been said, this statement/question is far, far too broad/vague and needs narrowing down before a concrete answer can be given.

Having said that, my mind jumped to the 2016 election results demographic breakdown, which was a very clear and ugly picture of the negative.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I must say that Vampires have had a mostly negative impact on America.

 

[Ryika]

Vampires are the worst anyway. Lost my job at a blood bank because of them. Manager said that guy can tell the blood type just by looking at it. I hate when they come into my country and bring skills that I don't have.

 

[stinkubus]

Interesting, I read an entire podcast conversation between Harris and Ezra Klein yesterday. I concluded that Sam Harris completely lacks a sense of history. I think he's really ignorant of a lot of it.

Sam Harris is a tool who lately has been plugging the "work" of Charles Murray. Not a good look.

 

[Lexicus]

You give him the benefit of the doubt, which is being nice. I don't, but that might just be because I hate his dumb face

I am being nice. I've said much meaner things about Harris in the past and I would say those mean things to his "face" if I was on Twitter.

 

[Narz]

Just my perception, but I think smarter people are also more prone to problems... Like Sheldon, really smart but still afflicted with a variety of instabilities less common in 'the regular folk'.

Yeah, there's a reason there's a YouTube channel called "It's ok to be Smart". Even at eight years old I remember thinking life would be easier if I was just some regular schmuck (not that I'm some great genius by any means but the run of the mill kids in public school were dumb as bricks).

 

[Akka]

Honestly, pretty tired of uppity clueless Europeans trying to teach us about our racial problems.

Oh god, the irony