[RD] Don’t Stay with Partners who Don’t Take Responsibility for their Mental Health

[BvBPL]

I find somewhat sad the idea of relationship being "taking and giving".
Certainly, at some level it's somewhat true, it's about a balance of what the relation provides with what efforts its requires, but I think it's healthier to see it as "a relation where you are happy to be", simple as that, and let the heart makes the count, not the head.

I’d rather people look first to be in healthy relationship and then make it a happy one. Plenty of people in a codependent relationship will swear up and down that their relationship is a happy one.

This is really what the thread was about, right?

While it's all made up and no one really knows for sure, DSM "cluster b" personality disorders are a) categorically not mental illnesses and b) intrinsically weigh on relationships because what defines such personality disorders is the motivations and actions in relation to other people.

I intended the discussion to be inclusive of the wide swath of mental health concerns particularly including, but not being limited to, personality disorders and psychiatric disorders. A brief perusal suggests that mental disorder is a contemporary and inclusive term for those mental health concerns. So feel free to replace my prior references to mental illness with mental disorder or mental health concern or whatever inclusive term is current.

 

[Narz]

Civver's logic would imply that Stephen Hawking shouldn't be in a relationship once he got ALS because he needs a lot of support.

Off topic, I've read Stephen Hawking was kind of a dick to his wife (entitled and demanding).

On topic, if someone's is using their illness or issue as an excuse then screw them (I can't help myself, I'm borderline, alcoholic, etc), if they're trying their best to be good to me then whatever, I can deal, most "illnesses" come with a silver lining anyway and plenty of people who don't fit into strict DSM definitions are still damaged and insufferable.

I wouldn't date someone physically crippled, I'm too selfish and like doing physical things (walks, bike riding, hiking, etc). I wouldn't leave my partner if they became crippled though.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

If you feel the need to dump your partner instead of helping them to get the help they need, there really wasn't much there to start with, was there?

 

[Commodore]

If you feel the need to dump your partner instead of helping them to get the help they need, there really wasn't much there to start with, was there?

Not necessarily. Sometimes the desire to leave the relationship comes after trying to help for years and just getting burnt out after seeing little to no progress. Or, for the conditions in which there is no hope of "getting better," the other person reaches their breaking point of having to care for someone who can't take care of themselves.

 

[Hygro]

If you feel the need to dump your partner instead of helping them to get the help they need, there really wasn't much there to start with, was there?

Hahaha the words of a manipulator right here.

 

[Narz]

If you feel the need to dump your partner instead of helping them to get the help they need, there really wasn't much there to start with, was there?

Clearly you've never been in a relationship with someone abusive. Some folks are excellent at playing victim, take it from me or learn the hard way (or maybe you'll just go lucky in love & will never know what I mean).

 

[Kozmos]

The constant emotional blackmail is what convinced me that I don't really need or want this in my life as a permanent fixture. That choice was additionally confirmed when I saw how bad it looks from the outside and how I did not miss that at all.

 

[Tahuti]

Besides the point since I've managed to fit in a socialized society, but even in the blank state, we live in a allistic (from the greek "other", like autism comes from the greek "self") and ablist society. It is a privilege that neurotypicals do not need the vast amounts of training to understand body language or when something is inappropriate.

At one point Autism was considered an appropriate diagnosis to describe my mental health situation, only to have this hypothesis destroyed when I moved towards a locale with much better contacts. Kids of gentrified middles professional class people in Eindhoven get diagnosed more often with Autism than locals. This might have to do with the fact their parents moved to Eindhoven and simply didn't care much about fitting into the local traditions. People often underestimate differences between local cultures within jurisdictions and as such end up in a lot of misunderstandings. Psychiatry has externalised certain conditions to differences in brain, not noting the possibility that the brain changes in response to certain stimuli.

There are plenty of other communities of the disabled. Deaf have their own culture, so do blind, etc. Autistics are another one of them. And quite frankly they tend to have quite a bunch in common, typically being nerdy introverts although that's not necessarily the case. When I hosted an autistic science summer camp almost all of the children had common interests with me that I could discuss for ages. The best part was that I could advertise the strengths of autism which don't precisely because of the "disease" model that dominates - this is the offensiveness of your post - rather than the neurodiveristy model.

I don't think "Autism" is a disease either. There are certainly grave personal (and mental) problems if you get that particular diagnosis.

They've been distinct for at least 30 years and the issue is psychiatry is defining them in terms of externalized traits rather than the neurological differences.

There is a couple of overlap. Emotional dysregulation is a feature of Autism, Borderline and Bipolar disorder alike. But if you have tics, psychiatrists will lean towards Autism, unless you have Tourettes', in which case they will lean towards the latter, because the tics are already accounted for by another disorder. I'm still oblivious what the cutoff is like when Psychiatrists are to view Tics as a result of Autism and when it is the result of Tourettes.

Note that like Autism, Borderline and Bipolar disorder both are historically derived from Schizophrenia. Hans Asperger might have invented the "Autism" diagnosis to save high-IQ children who would have otherwise been targeted by the Nazi eugenics programme on account that they would have Schizophrenia. Unlike Leo Kanner, Hans Asperger primarily worked with children of an above-average IQ, and possibly there was cream skinning to get there.

I know what mindblindness feels like and you're incorrect. It's a general obliviousness to the world around you - you don't feel that other peoples' minds exist. I can get mindblind again when I get anxious. It's easy to get paranoid beliefs if you can't know other people's mental states. Childhood paranoia can be of the sort "no one likes me ~ everyone is being mean to me ~ everyone is against me ~ no one understands me" and that's all due to the *experiences* one faces due to the mindblindness and triggered by anxiety.

Everyone has mindblindness to some degree. Claiming the opposite is true usually lands you a diagnosis of Schizotypal Personality Disorder instead, which ironically has plenty of traits in common with Autism.

I was giving it as a counterexample between the two - Antipsychotics don't change autistic traits.

Antipsychotics don't solve problems in general. Hell, even its utility for Schizophrenia and Bipolar disorder is now under fire. Scandinavian countries no longer demand antipsychotic treatment for these disorders.

 

[Lemon Merchant]

Clearly you've never been in a relationship with someone abusive. Some folks are excellent at playing victim, take it from me or learn the hard way (or maybe you'll just go lucky in love & will never know what I mean).

I may not have been in a relationship with someone abusive, per se, but I was married to someone who suffered from depression and turned to meth to self medicate. It took two years of getting her cleaned up only to have her relapse again, and again. I wasn't the victim, she was by virtue of that garbage she was taking. I never left, nor was I given the choice to leave, nor did I have to. In the end, she committed suicide. My point is, there was something there and I never gave up. Some people practically throw relationships away when the other person sneezes. The lack of commitment to an ill person was what I was addressing. You don't just throw a relationship away that is based on love and trust, just because one person becomes ill. You face it together and try to get them help by any means necessary. If you truly love someone, you don't discard them. If you do, you didn't really love them all that much in the first place.

Hahaha the words of a manipulator right here.

See above. Don't talk to me about manipulation. You missed my point entirely.

 

[Narz]

Really sorry to hear that. I lost my best friend to suicide in 2005.

I respect your loyalty, that said I still must make the distinction between self-harm and partner-harm. I agree it's important to be loyal thru thick and thin, sickness and health but if someone is abusing me on the regular my loyalty evaporates quickly.

 

[caketastydelish]

I'd consider people with mental illnesses to be victims of a problem that wasn't their fault. The same cannot be said for fat douche bag lawyers in their 30's.

 

[metalhead]

I wouldn't date someone physically crippled, I'm too selfish and like doing physical things (walks, bike riding, hiking, etc). I wouldn't leave my partner if they became crippled though.

That would be extremely unwise. If you have the self-awareness to know you don't want to be with a disabled person, then you would be doing both yourself and your partner a grave disservice to stick around if they became disabled. There is zero chance you wouldn't be living with deep resentment at being held back from the life you want to lead.

I may not have been in a relationship with someone abusive, per se, but I was married to someone who suffered from depression and turned to meth to self medicate. It took two years of getting her cleaned up only to have her relapse again, and again. I wasn't the victim, she was by virtue of that garbage she was taking. I never left, nor was I given the choice to leave, nor did I have to. In the end, she committed suicide. My point is, there was something there and I never gave up. Some people practically throw relationships away when the other person sneezes. The lack of commitment to an ill person was what I was addressing. You don't just throw a relationship away that is based on love and trust, just because one person becomes ill. You face it together and try to get them help by any means necessary. If you truly love someone, you don't discard them. If you do, you didn't really love them all that much in the first place.

You also need to love yourself and the rest of your family. My wife's best friend was married to someone in this exact same spot, only he self-medicates with opioids and alcohol. He would supposedly be clean, but I don't think he ever technically "relapsed," he was using all along and "getting clean" simply meant hiding it better.

No, you don't just throw a relationship away, but love should be a two-way street. I think there comes a point where it is reasonable to expect a partner to participate in their own care. This person was doing everything for her ex - cleaning the house, caring for the children, earning the money because he couldn't hold a job. She got absolutely nothing in return, because his focus was feeding his addiction, not acting with love towards his wife and children. If you're getting nothing in return - and I mean nothing real like a true commitment to recovering from a mental illness - that isn't true love, it's co-dependence.

 

[Narz]

I'd consider people with mental illnesses to be victims of a problem that wasn't their fault. The same cannot be said for fat douche bag lawyers in their 30's.

What's the logic? If mental illness isn't one's own fault how is douchebaggyness?

That would be extremely unwise. If you have the self-awareness to know you don't want to be with a disabled person, then you would be doing both yourself and your partner a grave disservice to stick around if they became disabled. There is zero chance you wouldn't be living with deep resentment at being held back from the life you want to lead.

No way you could know that about me.

I'm full of deep resentment anyway, at least I'd be highly appreciated by a disabled partner and probably be allowed to get sex outside the marriage/relationship.

Anyone who'd leave a person who became disabled because they "might get resentful" doesn't deserve love from anyone.

 

[metalhead]

So you'd stay with a disabled person because they'd be OK with you not staying faithful to them? That's not really "staying with" someone after they became disabled. Nor would you have any right to expect that your partner's expectation of fidelity would change just because they acquired a disability.

You're basically admitting that if your partner was no longer able to have intercourse due to a disability, you would want to be free to have sex with other women. What if she isn't OK with that? Do you feel entitled to cheat because you're deigning to have a relationship with a disabled person?

I'm not sure you're thinking this through. Seems to me my assessment is spot on.

 

[Narz]

Where did I say anything about cheating? Presumably my partner would want me to be happy and vice versa. If she wasn't OK with that we wouldn't be together in the first place

 

[Hygro]

Only Siths believe that making their partner their martyr is love.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Where did I say anything about cheating? Presumably my partner would want me to be happy and vice versa. If she wasn't OK with that we wouldn't be together in the first place

So you would only want a relationship with a woman who wouldn't mind if you cheated on her (disability is irrelevant to this question)???

I take it you're okay if the woman cheats on you, then?

 

[Akka]

Not that I would ever want anything but a strictly monogamous relationship, but if it's an agreed-upon element, having sex with someone else isn't "cheating".

 

[metalhead]

The way the scenario was presented was that the partner becoming disabled would then allow him to seek sex outside the relationship.

I don't understand why a disability should change one's expectation of faithfulness. Being disabled doesn't eliminate one's right to expect their partner to remain faithful. If that's not acceptable, the partner should leave. Not try to make the disabled person the villain by trying to say that not letting you stray is them not wanting you to be happy.

 

[rah]

IMHO, if you notice it before you're in a committed relationship, it's probably best that you run for the hills.
But if it's after you're married I'm with LM. For better or worse. That's what love is.
I'll make exceptions for abuse. (not experienced that either so just assuming)