Dune Mod

[The Great Apple]

I've just finished re-reading the three books again as well.

About spice harvesting. My impression from the books was that spice fields were few and far between, and it was rarely worth revisiting them after one harvester run. This might not be that good in game turns, so I sugges that instead (and this is the fun bit), worms and carryalls are introduced to similuate it over a few turns.

You should be able to find a programmer who can make worms in a worm like manner - roaming invisible units which are drawn to vehicles/shields/non-fremen, stick to sand, and can only be seen if they are next to you. Maybe spotter aircraft could be simulated at an extra cost for a few extra squares vision (got to be careful to avoid too much micromanagement. Worm + Something worm doesn't like = No more thing.

Fremen would have the ability to call and temperaily control worms, who would have transport capacity.

As for worm movement, when roaming I'd suggest 2; when under fremen control or going for an object, 3; and when going after those nasty shields, 4.

As for sand trout...

Spoiler Sand trout :

I had the feeling that while people were trying to export sand trout/worms nobody was successful. Surely Leto would put a stop to it anyway, wanting the spice monopoly for himself. Spice = power.

IIRC the 4th book backs this up.

 

[Supa]

Spoiler Sand trout :

I had the feeling that while people were trying to export sand trout/worms nobody was successful. Surely Leto would put a stop to it anyway, wanting the spice monopoly for himself. Spice = power.

IIRC the 4th book backs this up.

Spoiler Chapterhouse :

It has been a while, but I think the runaways at the end of the last book successfully captured a sandworm and turned it into a bunch of sandtrout. But we're a long way from the Muadib period and I don't think this is pertinent for the mod ? Sandtrout could be a healthy and luxury resource (sugar taste, contains water).

However, good ideas about the worms.

 

[Karl Townsend]

Yo guys i want to start modding and woulkd love to start are tc mod for civ 4
alls i need is to learn how to use the sdk kit they realsed and ill be off

 

[Jeckel]

Wow, glad to see so many interested people contributing to this mod. I've been coding general python since about 5 months before Civ4 came out and have just figured out enough to do things in civ. As I've posted a few times in this thread and the other Dune thread, I love dune and think this will rock.

To this end here are some of my thoughts:

XML Stuff:
1) The water thing. In the dune time were dealing with there are no farms on dune so haveing squares produce food strikes me as wrong. An easy way to sovle this is to change the graphic and text of food to water. It will require no acual codeing just a couple small changes in xml and a new graphic icon. Futhermore, in xml, you could allow tiles to make "water" only if they have a windtrap improvement build.

2) Units and buildings. I for one think some things from the various computer games should be include. Such as infantry with that sonic weapon from the origional dune movie as a Atraties/fremen team unit and the sonic tank from Dune 2000 game as an atraties UU. I also think some of the buildings from 2000/Emporeur games should be used, such as Light and Heavey Vehicle Factories.

3) The Lansraad. With a few textual changes I think the UN stuff should be good to start with, but would require some python to make it really duneish.

Python Stuff:
1) Factions, playable and other. CHOAM, the Spacing Guild, the Bene Geserit, and possible Tethlexu and IX should not be playable civilizations, they should be off camera groups that you deal with through new interface screens, this will take a little work, but if you start with the Mercenaries Mod by TheLopez then I think much of the work will be done already. I will be looking in to this at some point, but will be a while.

2) Fremen, smuggalers, bene geserit, mentats, soothsayers, those doctors with the dimonds, the emporour. These groups don't fit as playable civs, they wouldn't have cities. They are really just groups of special units that players need access to. I would handle this one of two ways. First you could make them national units that require a specific building that requires a certain tech. And that is how I would suggest doing it at the first. But utimatly these should be bought from 'Faction Screens' alla the above point.

3) Sand Trout, Worms, Spice. The spice must flow.. At the moment I am working on solving the problem of workers not being allowed to build outside cultureal radius. As soon as I finish with that I am starting on the worm thing(prob next week some time). Like TGA said above, worms will move around invisibly and will be drawen to things that move in the desert. I am planning a promotion that none mechanized units can get(and fremen start with) that will greatly leasen you chances of attracting a worm(call it 'None Rythmic Walk' or somthing). Will also have thumpers that will draw a worm, not sure if I'm going to make them a unit that must be deployed or a button that units have if they have a certain promotion, will prob do somthing like Fall From Heavon's fireball thing. The rest is in the following spoiler just so I don't risk ruining any ones reading of the books

Spoiler :

Alright, so worms sometimes leave behind, for the lack of a better term, an "egg sack". This is refered to as a Spice Bloom or a Spice Blow. After some time this will explode, shooting spice way up into the air and it settles on the desert below. At some point, and I'm not sure of the acual mechanics of this, sand trout appear at these blooms and frolic around until they grow big enough to find some water and encapsulate it, then growing into new worms.

With that in mind, and assuming worms are in the game and doing their worm thing, randomly worms will 'plant spice bloom' then some time later this will explode and change the surronding tiles into spice feild.

Any way, those are just some ideas. Like I said I will post the first version of 'Shihalud(spelling someone?) Mod' next week some time.

Thanx to all for contributing, lets keep it up.
How do people feel about includeing House Ordos? I personally think we should, they are a very fun faction and offer lots of spy possiblities.
Other then Atraities, Harkonon, and Ordos, what are some other Houses? I can't remember any other house names, any of you that just read the books, any ideas?

Hail the Great Maker.
May his passing clense the sands.

 

[Supa]

2) Fremen, smuggalers, bene geserit, mentats, soothsayers, those doctors with the dimonds, the emporour. These groups don't fit as playable civs, they wouldn't have cities. They are really just groups of special units that players need access to. I would handle this one of two ways. First you could make them national units that require a specific building that requires a certain tech. And that is how I would suggest doing it at the first. But utimatly these should be bought from 'Faction Screens' alla the above point.

I don't agree. Fremen(s) should be a (some) civ(s). It's true they don't build open cities, but they've got their sietches. Reduce them to some sort of special units wouldn't be a good thing.
I think the Smugglers could stand their own as a Civ too. I don't think it was mentionned in the books, but you can see 4 or 5 smugglers camps in Dune 1. I think Smugglers civ could be similar. House-style tech, very few cities, no Emperor Tribute, cheaper units.
For the others : Bene Gesserit, the Spacing Guild, CHOAM (I already proposed a way to integrate them), Mentats, the Doctors and Ix, I agree. I'd like to have the Bene Tleilax as a Civ, but I can wait a later version.

About the Spice cycle :

Spoiler :

I don't think we need to integrate the real spice cycle. It adds a lot of work in Python for almost nothing. Just make the Spice randomly appears and dissappears.

'Shihalud(spelling someone)

Shai-hulud

How do people feel about includeing House Ordos? I personally think we should, they are a very fun faction and offer lots of spy possiblities.
Other then Atraities, Harkonon, and Ordos, what are some other Houses? I can't remember any other house names, any of you that just read the books, any ideas?

I have no objection for the Ordos. I don't think others Houses are named in the first books. Atreides, Harkonnen. I think there are more name in the Prequels (But I strongly advise against taking anything else from the son's books!). House Vernius for one, but it's the ruler family of Ix.
I'm currently looking in the Encyclopedia too : House Maros, House Alexin, House Rembo, House Moritani, House Ginaz, House Herzog, House Fenring (I forgot them!), House Tipnear, House Chusak, House Khumali, House Kalifi, and I think it's enough

 

[The Great Apple]

You appear to have forgotten house Corrino. I'm sure there must have been others mentioned very rarely, but I don't remember them.

Is Ginaz really a house? I seem to remember that was where Gurney/Idaho (I think it was Idaho actually) was from, but the implication didn't seem to be that it was a house.

About water:
I seem to remember all the settlements on dune were placed around the north pole (there was a map) due to the fact that they could mine water or something (not entirely sure how this fits in with later stuff).

Worms:
You could make them terratorial (because they are), so that you don't get pounced on by too many at once. Things which override this would be Fremen riders, and Shields.

As for thumpers - it seems to me this would be too much micromanagement. You could just assume that any fremen wandering on the desert attract worms. I would also dump the small chance of fremen getting eaten - I don't think it really happens.

Any plans to include atomics?

 

[Supa]

I left off House Corrino because Jeckel didn't want the Emperor as a Civ.. Something that I somewhat agree with.

Is Ginaz really a house? I seem to remember that was where Gurney/Idaho (I think it was Idaho actually) was from, but the implication didn't seem to be that it was a house.

I only listed the names found with "House" before them in the Encyclopedia. I didn't care about the timeline, so it's possible that Ginaz wasn't a (Great/Minor) House anymore during Idaho birth.

 

[The Great Apple]

I left off House Corrino because Jeckel didn't want the Emperor as a Civ.. Something that I somewhat agree with.

Ok, missed that bit

I only listed the names found with "House" before them in the Encyclopedia. I didn't care about the timeline, so it's possible that Ginaz wasn't a (Great/Minor) House anymore during Idaho birth.

Encyclopedia? Where? I presume you are referring to a Dune Encyclopedia.

 

[Supa]

Yes, I'm talking about the official (even if not 100% canon) Dune Encyclopedia released in 1984. Connery posted a link to the pdf earlier.

 

[Karl Townsend]

yo guys can we all have a chat about this on msn
mine is itiskarl@hotmail.co.uk

 

[Gunner]

House Ginaz is listed as a house in the appendix for the original Dune book. In the prequels its described more as Ginaz just being the name of the planet where the famous swordmaster school is, without a real house to it. The appendix tells about how House Ginaz had a 'war of assaisins' (which is a special type of limited war, its also described in the appendix) with House Moritani. In the prequels something very similar happens to this as Ginaz is attacked by House Moritani since the swordmaster school kicked a kind from Moritani out.

I personally would very much object to including House Ordos, it is mentioned no where in the books at all, not even the prequels.



How exactly are you planning on setting up the scenario? I think that exactly following the plot of the book would be rather boring and not really be a good game of civ (the Atreides would essentially be guaranteed to lose at the start and then you would have some boring thing with a hero unit for Paul wandering around doing stuff). When I was thinking about a Dune mod earlier I came up with what I thought was a better storyline in relation to a game of Civ.

The story would start with Kaitan and Salusa Secondus being attacked with atomics by some renegade house (Kaitan is the imperial capital and Salusa Secondus is the home of the Sardakur). So after this a situation would be created where House Corrino and the Emperor survive, but are extremely weakened, about to the level of one of the higher level houses (like Atreides, Harkonnen, etc.). So anyway this would create a sort of power vacuum and all of the major powers are naturally going to try exploit it as an opprotunity to take control of Arrakis and become the new Emperor. The game could start on Arrakis right as the contenders are arriving on the planet getting ready to duke it out.

The civs I was thinking of having for this setup would be:
These ones would be essential
House Atreides
House Harkonnen
House Corrino
The Bene Tleilaxu
The Fremen (I think they should definitely be a civ)

These would be of less importance, could or could not be included
Bene Gesserit (actually they probably wouldnt make sense really, you could look at it different ways)
House Moritani
House Palpatine (they are mentionned in the back of the Dune in the appendix as being an influential house which is super rich)
House Vernius (the house that controls Ix in the prequels, they are an ally of the Atreides)
House Ecaz
House Ginaz (I would lean towards not including them as a civ and just representing as hireable mercenaries and maybe a buildable wonder)
Smugglers (I would actually lean towards them not being a civ, they weren't really that influential in any of the books)

These Civs could be included as allies of other houses
House Vernius (could be independant or just be an ally of the Atreides, could go either way)
House Richese (ally of the Harkonnen)
House San Maarten (ally of the Atreides)
I'm sure we could find more ally houses if we needed to.

Well thats all for now, let me know what you think

 

[GarretSidzaka]

attn: big post

I'm not sure anyone has done static leaderheads for this mod, but that is within my abilities. I have randomly aquired some pic that maybe we can discuss:


Paul

this one appears to be from the Dune CCG

a more familiar Paul

Baron Harkonnen

i really like the new casting of the Baron

and the de Laurentiis Baron

Duke Leto

is there much to discuss other that how crappy quality this picture is?

Stilgar

new Stilgar

old Stilgar

Emperor Shaddam IV

Sorry about long post.
I hope you enjoyed looking. Tell me what you think!

 

[Karl Townsend]

ok guys are we acctully ggonna devop this mod

 

[Connery]

I've seen some interest from various people and, as i've said before, i'm willing to help (within my capabilities).

 

[Gunner]

I think that if this mod is to be made then there needs to start being some discussion going on around here about just how that objective will be done. Post your ideas everyone! Comment on what I said above. It will only start moving if people contribute to it, not by just asking if we're going to start. Before starting to actually develop an extensive mod like this you have to have a pretty clear idea of how exactly all of the elements are going to be implemented.

 

[Gunner]

@GarretSidzaka
Good job finding those pictures. I personally think that it would be good to keep them all from the same source, namely the most recent Sci-Fi channel miniseries since those are my favorite. How could you say no to those amazing blue eyes It would help to keep the overall feel somewhat consistent.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

@GarretSidzaka
Good job finding those pictures. I personally think that it would be good to keep them all from the same source, namely the most recent Sci-Fi channel miniseries since those are my favorite. How could you say no to those amazing blue eyes It would help to keep the overall feel somewhat consistent.

yeah, but the new shaddam is a little feminine dont you think? and the old Leto is just too cool, i mean Das Boot man!

 

[Jeckel]

I have to agree that the pictures should be from the same sourse, and while I personally like the classic movie's look, their is more to choose from in the new movie. But if some is doing the editing for a leader head I will have to vote for basing Paul, his sister, Leto, the baron and his nephews(sting ) on the old movie if possible.

Now down to some buisness..
I have to second Gunner in that we need people to post ideas, the more the better, and both story and gameplay ideas are wanted.

On time and setting:
I side with Supa here, as far as building the tech tree, makeing units and what not, we need to think somewhat alternate to the books story line. It seems everyone agrees that we should go with the time of the first two books. Emporeur is still in control, the atreities are just one of the houses, and the fremen are just desert nomads. If we set this generic structure up, then scenerios can be made for any specific instance from the cat attack on Pauls twins to the attack on the sheild wall.

Spice Ideas:

Following that idea, we could (python ?) add a new importance for the Spice (in addition of the CHOAM), the Spice Tribute : Every X turns, every House civ must give X spices to the Emperor. Fremen and Smugglers would be excluded from this obligation. Feedback ?

There are several different ways we can handle this and it goes to some important issues. From what i remember they still had money in the duneverse, like gold, it is very valuable, but you don't walk into barnes'n noble and put a nugget on the counter. So I think in what ever way we do spice it should be transformed at some point into the built in commerse type. We can change the graphic to somthing other then that gold coin, but it will be alot easyer if we base as much of this as possible on built in code.

In relation to the Emporeur and the tithe, we could easyly set up a trigger that has the emporer demand a tithe from the players, anyone remember the first Dune computer game, the one before Dune 2000? It had somthing like that, very cool game.

Factions:
I agree that the fremen and smugglars should be playable, a buddy of mine should be the error in my logic on that so we came up with the idea of Seiches(umm, again, sp?). They would be like cities, but with certain weaknesses and advantages.
The Siech could be built on mountain tiles, makeing them passable to fremen friendly units.
They would be limited in population to somthing like 6 to 8.
They would be invisible to players that haven't been into the city tile, probable some form of chance to discover them to.
Their specialists would be limited in some fashion.
Population points could leave the city and become fremen units and the units could join the cities to become pop points.
They wouldn't be able to research tech, or maybe just have their own limited tech branch.

As for the emporuer, as I've said before, I think the emporer should be an off camera faction, but I don't see a problem with including house corrinodo as a playable civ, just don't use the emporer as the leader head, use some other family member, his daughter or somthing.

 

[Jeckel]

Right now I am working in my JFort project and a few that off shoot from it, but in my spare time I'm looking into map scripts with the plan of makeing an all desert script. I should have somthing out by the end of the month.

As for python codeing(which will do 98% of anything we could want) I am learning new stuff every day and feel confident that given a little time I can figure out how to do just about anything we need, so unless someone else wants the job I'll offer my abiaty in the coding area.

Any one out there want to start on a tech tree? This is one of the most important part, but also one of the largest, so lets start small. Lets come up with 5 first row techs, what should it be called, what is the Duneish idea behind it, and what in game thing should it accomplish?

What buildings should there be for cities to build, or what should current buildings be /re/named to? Lets get some names for the buildings and then we can work out the stats and such. But implimintation will reliy on the tech tree to a degree.

Also, new traits would be appropriat, any ideas for this? I was thinking somthing to portray the harkonnon cruelty, the Atreities compation and fairness, ect.

Buttons! Anyone out there get some free time and knows how, just start grabbing stuff and makeing buttons of it. Some suggestions of things to button:
Thumper, harvester, worm, fremen man, freman women, a bene geserit mother, an ornithoptor, the mentat from the classic movie(the evil one and Gurrney), a krys knife(sp? I really need to get a dune spell checker, hehe), a close up on the blue eyes, spice on a table, the emporeur, and anything else you can think of that might be useful.
Some places to look for images:
The old 90s Dune game, Dune 2000, Emporeur: Battle for Dune
Might be able to get some screen captures to work with from these games, if that might help.

Origonally posted by Leif
Has anyone submitted government types/civics yet?

Nope, not yet, if you have any suggestions, please post them up.


I think that should be good to start with. GarretSidzaka, Gunner, Karl Townsend, Supa, epu, Connery, TGA, we seem to be the primary ones behind this project, please provide your opinions and incite and anything else you think we should discuss.

 

[GarretSidzaka]

just a thought:

food = water
mony = spice

we can just change these basic facets of the game, plus replace graphic icons for them