Dune Mod

Do we want Paul to be a leader for Atreides or do we save him to predestine him to be Muah'dib? It would be nice to see some good female leaders, are there any that would fit? I definitely think the Bene Geserit should not be their own faction.

- feydras
 
feydras said:
Good starting suggestions Jeckel. Here are mine along with some thoughts on why..

Atreides leader traits - Philosophical is an excellent choice.
Leto - Philosophical and Creative
Paul - Philosophical and Spiritual

Harkonnen leader traits - The trait that decreases maintanence costs is Organized, a good choice, but i chose others. The Industrious trait can be used to reflect the significant resources of the house as well as the way they drive their workers hard.
Baron Vladimir - Financial and Industrious
Feyd-Rautha - Aggressive and Industrious

Freemen leader traits - As much as it fits themetically, i'm not sure Expansionist would be a good trait for the Freemen as it adds +2 health to each city. The main effect of this is to allow bigger cities/seitches which we may not want.
Aggressive is a good trait for them as it grants each melee unit the +10% str promo simulating their natural toughness. Organized might also be a good fit. I know it sounds funny, but it would mitigate the maintanence costs that may be high as a result of having their seitches scattered far and wide.
Stilgar - Aggressive and Organized
Liet Kynes - Aggressive and Spiritual or Creative

As you can see i'm a fan of choosing one trait that both leaders share as a way to define the faction and the other to individualize the leader's effect on the faction.

In choosing leader traits it is important to look at the effects they generate to make sure they match the theme of the factions. The effects will have a stronger impression on how the civ feels to play then the name of the trait which can be misleading. Leader personality and starting techs (when we get there) are other places we can tweak civ play style.

- feydras

i like where you are going here. what i was thinking about earlier was to start on the terrain. maybe i will do that today. we also need to reskin a resource to be spice. i am thinking about reskinning oil? wheat? what resource would look good painted red as spice melange.
 
I don't see why you have to be tied down to the default traits, but if you want to keep it like this then remember to take into account the new ones coming with Warlords - Protective, Charismatic and Imperialistic.
 
What exactly is wrong with the map I made? Just wondering, because I might be able to change it if there are any requests. I was very meticulous with following the real dune map, there really shouldn't be any problems with it relating to accuracy.
 
TGA bring up two good points,
1) we should keep Warlors in mind(I drool just thinking what 'Vassel States' could imply), and
2) Adding new traits is no harder then adding units, techs, or anything else, so if anyone has any ideas for more appropriate traits we can start toying around with those ideas.
But, to keep us on point, for now lets stick manly with getting a rough version up with current vanilla Civ.

GarretSidzaka,
Good job on the textures. :D I love the new peaks, very dunesk, the polar ice will be good to(I didn't like the idea of vanilla ice feature all stuck around the pole ;)). Could you maybe get a little more green out of those grasslands? I think we should go for as little green as possible on the map.
As for the the bonuses, the sand trout made my day, I can just picture little fremen children chasing them around the night sand, very cool. fThe oil was also a good choice and will make a perfect spice blow. :)

Some suggestions for new terrain:
A white desert terrain to be the deep desert where shai-halud, may his passing clense the earth, spends most of its time.
If you could retexture the stone bonus, make it look more like your mountains, then we could put that on various terrain to represent rock outcroppings. Don't know if that is the best way to do it, but anyway if can be done would be good with me.
And, lastly, I think we need some sort of 'rock platue' terrain, which will be the main tile for cities and will be immune to worms. :D

feydras,
I give my consent to the atreidies and fremen trait choices(Aggressive/creative for Fremen Liet Kynes).
As for the Harkkonon, I hesitate to give them aggresive. They will have some of the more powerful military units and shouldn't need anymore bonuses in that department.
How about Organized instead of Agressive?

If no one else gets around to it first, I'll post some city and sietch names later tonight.
 
thanks

@gunner
when i posted that stuff, i hadn't seen your map, so i do not feel like doing work that you've already contributed :)

@ great apple
i agree with you also. warlords throws a whole new perspective on this project. btw im happy your on this one with us coz you got mad skills! :goodjob:
 
feydras said:
Good starting suggestions Jeckel. Here are mine along with some thoughts on why..

Atreides leader traits - Philosophical is an excellent choice.
Leto - Philosophical and Creative
Paul - Philosophical and Spiritual

Harkonnen leader traits - The trait that decreases maintanence costs is Organized, a good choice, but i chose others. The Industrious trait can be used to reflect the significant resources of the house as well as the way they drive their workers hard.
Baron Vladimir - Financial and Industrious
Feyd-Rautha - Aggressive and Industrious

Freemen leader traits - As much as it fits themetically, i'm not sure Expansionist would be a good trait for the Freemen as it adds +2 health to each city. The main effect of this is to allow bigger cities/seitches which we may not want.
Aggressive is a good trait for them as it grants each melee unit the +10% str promo simulating their natural toughness. Organized might also be a good fit. I know it sounds funny, but it would mitigate the maintanence costs that may be high as a result of having their seitches scattered far and wide.
Stilgar - Aggressive and Organized
Liet Kynes - Aggressive and Spiritual or Creative

As you can see i'm a fan of choosing one trait that both leaders share as a way to define the faction and the other to individualize the leader's effect on the faction.

In choosing leader traits it is important to look at the effects they generate to make sure they match the theme of the factions. The effects will have a stronger impression on how the civ feels to play then the name of the trait which can be misleading. Leader personality and starting techs (when we get there) are other places we can tweak civ play style.

- feydras

I like your ideas alot.
And maybe I have come up with an idea for the problem of wanting to ty the fremen with a second civilisation

What if the civilisation that makes the wonder of Kwisatz Haderach gets in a permanent aliance with the Fremen.
No one else can get in aliance with the fremen. At best they can aquire a cease fire situation.

What do you think about this.

It would make sense ase fremen aren't friend with no other civilisation.
 
Man, I've been trying to get some seitch names, but all I can find is this link that supa posted on the second page of this thread:

Dune Seitch names from Cryo game

But, as is stated in that post, these names are quite repetative. I've been trying to download that Dune Encyclopedia, but the 10 mb size kills my dialup connection. I'm going to stop by a buddies later today and use his broadband to download it. :)
 
What if the civilisation that makes the wonder of Kwisatz Haderach gets in a permanent aliance with the Fremen.
No one else can get in aliance with the fremen. At best they can aquire a cease fire situation.

What do you think about this.

I don't like it. If the KH have to be a GW (not sold on that idea either), it should give a limited bonus toward the fremen (+ X toward good relationship).

About the Sietch names, I think it's not a priority. That's polishing.

The link to the Encyclopedia is in the first page btw. :p

An additionnal Harkonnen Leader could be Beast Rabban.
 
GarretSidzaka - the terrains look very nice. I like the use of oil for undeveloped spice. Will it look okay when drilled? If not is it possible to use a different resource graphic for developed and undeveloped?
For the sand trout resource we should make it a late discovery for the houses and an early one for the Freemen. Of course, we'd want the Freemen to be loathe to trade it but they would probably be loathe to trade most things. That can be set can't it? Just make them like Monty or Washington in that regard.

The Great Apple - i wasn't aware they released the names of the new traits. Can you link me to the expansion pack update?

Jeckel - good point about the Harkonen and the Aggressive trait. Organized is a fine substitution.
I don't like the idea of naming the House cities after planets but i don't have any better idea.

I'd most like to see the Kwisatz Haderach as one of the religions as we have only a few. We could make it more valuable than the other ones. I like Magecu's idea of making the Freemen ally with the faction that develops it but agree with Supa that that is probably too much. How about a relations boost with the Freemen to any faction that adopts the religion as it's state religion? Also, can we make the Freemen favor that religion and seek it? This may not work as they may not have access to it. We could put it sooner on their tech tree. I realize Paul came from the Atreides but he was Freemen when he became the Kwisatz Haderach.

Supa - In place of the Kwisatz Haderach as a GW or a religion do you have any other ideas? Neither feels quite right to me.

- feydras
 
I’d like to enlist to help you people if it’s not too late.
I know Java and html (note much user here) but I’m going to learn python and xml soon.
Been playing civ since civ 2, I’ve played around with the moding tools but never made much.
I’ve read all of the dune books (original series plus prequel trilogy and jihad trilogy).
I have some ideas:
Ideas version (if we ever get this far)
Model the whole dune universe from beginning of Guild monopoly/when most groups/factions just developed to chapterhouse dune. Firstly this will truly recreate the whole dune universe and make it as big as original civ4 itself and secondly you have a much wider time frame with a lot more developments technology wise.
I know it’s not something being done now but I think it’s something we should keep in the back of our mind.

More realistic version
Have the thing start some time before original dune. This will make more since cuz you can develop/research all those dune units. We can take unit ideas from original dune and "downgrade" them into an older unit. So for example you will first research a very primitive spice collector unit that will later upgrade. If the scenario is set in the original dune to dune messiah timeframe then there is very little room for technology tree (only like 3 generations). I mean you can certainly pus some stuff in but a longer time frame is more fun.

Does anyone have a basic techtree already?
If not, I’ll try to develop one these couple of days. Just something simple to start from. Are we going to have a separate techtree for some factions? Ie: fremen techtree, Atreides techtree, Harkonnen techtree, etc... Or have some faction specific techs and some techs everybody can research?
Is it possible to make 2 100% totally different techtrees for 2 civs so when you play as civ a you won’t see any of the techs for civ b and vies versa?

Another idea springs to mind: have house Ix as an interface from which you can buy techs. Or pay them to research something in particular. Or you could get a big research bonus if you are friends with house Ix.
 
@pavelthesecond
Glad to have you on board. :) No we don't have anything on the tech tree yet. Yes you can have totally different tech trees for different Civilizations, but the other civs will be able to see techs for their rivals, just can't research them. If you want to get started on the tech tree that would be great, post up any ideas you have and we can go from there. :) And I like your idea an IX interface where you can by techs. Maybe make so you can "rent" techs for a number of turns based on how much you pay, when your time is up you lose the tech. And maybe an option to rent a form of Scientist Speacialist from them aswell. I think this idea will fit in nicely with the idea of CHOAM and the Guild as Mercenary Mod type interface screens.


Some general stuff:
I am going to be swamped this week, but will check in when I can. I got a buddy of mine started on the python code for the worms, should have a basic version available in a week or two.
 
Here is a tech tree version 0.01. I went through the dune appendixes and some random pages of dune encyclopaedia to get ideas. Note that I didn't put any space travel related stuff because the thing is set on dune only.
21 techs so far!:D
Any feedback/ideas?
 

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  • Dune Mod Techtree 0.01.zip
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@pavel
I dled that file and it just came out jibberish in my notepad, do I need to rename it or somthing?
 
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