Ferguson

[Commodore]

As to 'getting out of his car improperly' being 'all' that he did to contribute to the situation...how much do we consider 'just acceptable error' from a cop? I've had life and death jobs, and I can tell you that the people I worked with had zero tolerance for making mistakes, and so did I. So here we have a cop making a mistake, and somebody died.

Sure, the guy made the situation worse. You say 'he shouldn't have taken the opportunity to attack the cop', I say 'once you start you can't let up', so one way or another we agree Brown made the situation worse for himself. But nobody, least of all his fellow cops, seems inclined to mention that if Wilson hadn't screwed it up in the first place that would most likely have been the routine investigative stop that it was meant to be. While screwing up isn't murder, if you screw up and somebody dies there should be some sort of consequence, yes?

This is an excellent point and I don't find anything in it I particularly disagree with. I too, have had life and death jobs and I had zero tolerance for mistakes as well. You just cannot afford to tolerate any degree of incompetence when lives are at stake; and those who do make mistakes that lead to the loss of life do need to be made an example of to inspire others in that position to do better.

If this point were the main focus of the protest movement in the Michael Brown case, I would have been much more supportive of it. Instead, they really came off as just an angry mob baying for Wilson's blood.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

This is an excellent point and I don't find anything in it I particularly disagree with. I too, have had life and death jobs and I had zero tolerance for mistakes as well. You just cannot afford to tolerate any degree of incompetence when lives are at stake; and those who do make mistakes that lead to the loss of life do need to be made an example of to inspire others in that position to do better.

If this point were the main focus of the protest movement in the Michael Brown case, I would have been much more supportive of it. Instead, they really came off as just an angry mob baying for Wilson's blood.

Well, they come of that way because they are inarticulate, as mobs generally are. But that doesn't mean that I, and you, and the next guy, can't look at the underlying issues.

Cops don't hold themselves, or each other, to any kind of account.

As long as it is ruled a 'good shoot', life just goes on for everyone but the shot guy.

Racism is used as a screen, hiding that we do not have a 'black problem' or a 'brown problem', we have a blue problem. This is best exemplified by a direct quote I got from a cop one time; "there are two kinds of people in the world, cops and [deleted]". As I said earlier, people in life and death conditions worry a lot less about avoiding mistakes when the life that is really at risk is 'just a [deleted]'...and the term he used wasn't a racial slur, it was an anatomical reference that he clearly extended to pretty much everyone.

 

[civman110]

How? Wilson worked in that environment every day. There is no reason to think he was unaffected by it, or for that matter that he wasn't an active participant in it. So how is it separate?

Because the DOJ found no wrong doing on Wilson's part and that racism had nothing to do with Brown's death.

Your trying to link the DOJ report to Wilson when he has been cleared of all wrong doing and that is extremely disingenuous.

As to 'getting out of his car improperly' being 'all' that he did to contribute to the situation...how much do we consider 'just acceptable error' from a cop? I've had life and death jobs, and I can tell you that the people I worked with had zero tolerance for making mistakes, and so did I. So here we have a cop making a mistake, and somebody died. Sure, the guy made the situation worse. You say 'he shouldn't have taken the opportunity to attack the cop', I say 'once you start you can't let up', so one way or another we agree Brown made the situation worse for himself. But nobody, least of all his fellow cops, seems inclined to mention that if Wilson hadn't screwed it up in the first place that would most likely have been the routine investigative stop that it was meant to be. While screwing up isn't murder, if you screw up and somebody dies there should be some sort of consequence, yes?

Because he got out of his car improperly and was attacked he is responsible for killing Brown? You need to put this into perspective. I would be somewhat inclined to at least partially agree with you if Wilson had done something that clearly provoked an attack, but he didn't.

I work on extremely large industrial construction sites and if someone is fatally injured there is a huge distinction that is made between a "mistake" and "gross negligence." If I have an area taped off and some numbnuts walks into that area (which is something he has no business doing) and gets killed that's his fault.

Brown intentionally did something that everyone knows can result in you getting killed. He only has himself to blame.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So Wilson who did something that at least three police departments train officers not to do, that anyone with even a shred of common sense can see is a stupid thing to do, gets a pass from you.

Not much point in discussing that any further.

 

[JollyRoger]

Obviously, if Wilson was a racist, he would have lynched Brown instead of shooting him.

 

[sophie]

Obviously, if Wilson was a racist, he would have lynched Brown instead of shooting him.

"He was reaching for my rope"

 

[Tigranes]

Few bad cops my butt.

Let me relate a story to you:

I was arrested once in VA Beach for "drinking in public". In all reality I was at a party on a balcony, finished my beer, and carried the empty bottle in to the parking lot where there was a trash can that wasn't overflowing. I was in the process of handing my buddy my car keys so he could drive home as he was sober and I was arrested for drinking in public.

At any rate... when I got to the precinct I was sitting at a desk while the officer filled out the paperwork. Behind me was the drunk tank. There was a guy in there admittedly raising a ruckus. Two officers got tired of it - big guys - and they went in to the holding cell and grabbed the guy and smashed his face in to the cinderblock wall. Once of them got his night stick and pushed it in to the back of the guys neck to hold him face first against the wall while the other cop just WAILED on the guy with his night stick. When he was done they traded places and did it again. They left this guy a bloody heap on the floor, and the entire altercation lasted about 5 minutes. When the two cops walked out of the cell they very loudly said "I didn't see anything, did you see anything?" and the other replied "I didn't see anything, did you see anything?" and this went on until EVERY SINGLE COP in the precinct repeated the line.

A comment on nbc website after this interview:

 

[useless]

I'm sure the cop will go free, they all do, can't expect any sort of justice.

 

[warpus]

Maybe what the U.S. needs is two competing police forces, which are able to arrest each other's officers and compete with each other in a capitalistic American spirit.

How else can America get the police it deserves, if not through the actions of the free market? (PBUT)

 

[Borachio]

Oh. Hasn't America got the police-force it deserves already, then?

Old joke: Hong Kong has the finest police-force money can buy. (Not only an old joke, but probably an out of date old joke.)

 

[Traitorfish]

Maybe what the U.S. needs is two competing police forces, which are able to arrest each other's officers and compete with each other in a capitalistic American spirit.

They tried that in New York, back in the 1850s. It, ah, it didn't go so well.

 

[Borachio]

I think it'd be hilarious!

Maybe there should be a multiplicity of police forces - all busy bashing each over the head with truncheons.

 

[Farm Boy]

Oh lord. The Federal Gubbernmint has given them all too many APCs and anti-personnel weapons to let them do this. They'd level cities.

 

[Traitorfish]

...And the rebuilding efforts will stimulate the economy! Great thinking, Farm Boy!

 

[Farm Boy]

That's one way to get repairs approved for O'Hare.

 

[Antilogic]

I believe a cop saying "he was going for my gun!" about as much as I believe a five year old with a hand in the cookie jar, covered in crumbs and smeared chocolate, saying "it wasn't me!"

 

[Farm Boy]

I believe a cop saying "he was going for my gun!" about as much as I believe a five year old with a hand in the cookie jar, covered in crumbs and smeared chocolate, saying "it wasn't me!"

My son and I were in just woke up eyes not working entirely right sleepymode a morning not too long ago when I went into the kitchen to get him a drink and some cereal. I hear *crinkle crinkle* from the living room and realize that we left out jelly beans the previous night. I walk back to the living room where he's half-asleep stuffed a not insignificant amount of sugar into his mouth, he looks at me in a moment of 3 year old panic and blurts around the candy, "CanIhavesomejellybeansplease?"

I couldn't help but laugh. But it seemed like a good life lesson. It's still easier to ask forgiveness than permission. And certain careers reward it.

 

[warpus]

They tried that in New York, back in the 1850s. It, ah, it didn't go so well.

Ha.. Well I guess this goes to show how useless the free market can be at times..

 

[Commodore]

They tried that in New York, back in the 1850s. It, ah, it didn't go so well.

Those weren't two competing police forces though. From reading your link it sounds like one police organization was disbanded and replaced with another by the New York State Legislature. The old police force chose not to comply with the order to disband which led to the little scuffle they had.

So no, it was not tried by New York in the 1850s.

 

[Tigranes]

Please observe that another cop in my video is black. Who had naturally covered his white co worker. So much for racial solidarity.