How conservatives have evolved

[kochman]

I could say the same about certain posters here who call Mitt Romney, and I mean the CURRENT Mitt Romney, a screaming liberal.

And you'd be absolutely correct!

 

[NickyJ]

The poll is flawed. There's no "Heck, no" option.

 

[Leoreth]

I'm rather missing a "compared to how he's portrayed, yes" option.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Too be honest, between the media, the politics, the talking heads and you guys here I can't make heads or tails of US political labels any more.

Kudos for the Ghostbusters reference though, but since I'm not American I'm not allowed to vote for Downtown.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Too be honest, between the media, the politics, the talking heads and you guys here I can't make heads or tails of US political labels any more.

You can't ? My impression is:

Progressive/Left Democrat/Liberal : Center right

Democrat/Liberal : Right wing

Moderate Democrat/Liberal, Centrist; Moderate Republican : Really right wing

Republican: So right-wing that it isn't funny any more

Conservative Republican or Libertarian: totally bonkers

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

True, true

So the question becomes: Is Obama bonkers? Well, he did run for president out of free will, so that's a clear: yes.

But I disagree on: "it isn't funny any more". Most of the time it's hilarious.

 

[_random_]

There's an inmate who won a 41% vote in the West Virginia Democratic primary earlier this month. But it looks unlikely he'll keep doing that well.

Truly a modern day Eugene Debs, if Eugene Debs were clearly mentally ill instead of being a badass.

Jolly Roger is far left? What's it like to be so far right etc.

I believe Jolly's stated he would have voted Republican in 2000 if McCain had won the nomination, so it's pretty hard to characterize him as especially far to the left.

Anyhow, Obama has some conservative tendencies, but he is not himself a conservative.

 

[mangxema]

This poll really has nothing to do with the thread topic.

 

[Deviate]

By what standard? In what category? Etc

 

[Flying Pig]

I think fundamentally a 'conservative' is somebody whose fundamental response to politics is 'the best thing to do is to look to the traditional way of doing things' (note: not always the old way, as a lot of conservatives appeal to 'lost values'). By that standard, I think it's quite hard to accuse Obama of being a conservative; his policies on healthcare and same-sex marriage seem to suggest that his natural reaction is the 'liberal' thought process of 'let's find a new solution to our problems'. However, he doesn't seem all that strongly either way.

 

[Zack]

Like others have said, I think he's a liberal governing a conservative nation, and he thus sometimes appears to have conservative tendencies.

 

[Tahuti]

I think fundamentally a 'conservative' is somebody whose fundamental response to politics is 'the best thing to do is to look to the traditional way of doing things' (note: not always the old way, as a lot of conservatives appeal to 'lost values').

That doesn't explain those who want government to actively step in to reverse a process that will continue without change of legislation. Most anti-immigration parties in Europe seek to legislatively change immigration rules, not keep them the way the were, yet they are still considered Conservative. So the Conservatism/Progressivism dichotomy is probably more rooted in social questions than political ones.

 

[Leoreth]

Definitely. I don't think Flying Pig's "traditional way of doing things" was meant to apply only to legislation.

 

[potatokiosk]

Since I have seen several members of this forum claim that Obama is actually conservative... and we know Obama's opinion on same sex marriage has "evolved"... and he is the leader of the country (good work conservatives!)... he must be a very influential conservative.

So, American conservatives have evolved...

Is Obama a conservative?
Let's make a real stand here and figure this out, it could change a lot of discussions.

Liberals got on board the gay marriage bandwagon a long time ago. Conservatives will sooner or later, but very slowly, just as they were very slow to accept equal rights for blacks and women but they eventually did. So Obama is clearly a conservative or else he would have supported gay marriage since the 90s.

 

[potatokiosk]

Obama is a pure socialist lololol.

As a conservative he believes in socialism for the rich & capitalism for the poor.

 

[Zack]

Liberals got on board the gay marriage bandwagon a long time ago. Conservatives will sooner or later, but very slowly, just as they were very slow to accept equal rights for blacks and women but they eventually did. So Obama is clearly a conservative or else he would have supported gay marriage since the 90s.

Just because he did not support it publicly does not mean he did not support it privately.

 

[Flying Pig]

That doesn't explain those who want government to actively step in to reverse a process that will continue without change of legislation. Most anti-immigration parties in Europe seek to legislatively change immigration rules, not keep them the way the were, yet they are still considered Conservative. So the Conservatism/Progressivism dichotomy is probably more rooted in social questions than political ones.

As I understand it they're not appealing to the 'current' way of doing things but what they feel is a lost tradition - they think that immigration is a new innovation, at odds with (say) British values, and so they want to revert to the 'old ways' of doing things - however mythical those are. Alternatively, you could say that they're resisting change to their country's social makeup, or again, trying to 'put it back' to where they think it was in the Good Old Days.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I absolutely LOVE that you take the "Political Compass Test" analysis, as though Obama had answered it himself or they are the deciders, as fact.

It is hilarious Formy, and I thank you.

I love that you don't seem to understand that they rated him and all the other presidential candidates based on their own policies and actions instead of absurd partisan rhetoric one finds on Fox News and Breitbart.

Do you contest any of the facts listed in that article? What makes you think he is a "liberal"?

If Obama really is a Conservative then maybe all you liberals should find another candidate to vote for in 2012.

If you think I'm a liberal instead of a moderate, that is obviously the problem here.

And whom would you suggest? Don't you realize that the political party with the incumbent president almost always selects him as their candidate, even if he proved to be an incompetent idiot like GWB?

I think fundamentally a 'conservative' is somebody whose fundamental response to politics is 'the best thing to do is to look to the traditional way of doing things' (note: not always the old way, as a lot of conservatives appeal to 'lost values'). By that standard, I think it's quite hard to accuse Obama of being a conservative; his policies on healthcare and same-sex marriage seem to suggest that his natural reaction is the 'liberal' thought process of 'let's find a new solution to our problems'. However, he doesn't seem all that strongly either way.

Only his healthcare initiative is moderate at best. The current system in the US is obviously hopelessly broken. It is insane that we pay far more than anybody else for mediocre healthcare. If it wasn't so completely screwed up, there would be no need to take these measures which even Romney advocated for the most part in his own state.

And same-sex marriage is now favored by more people than oppose it. Being opposed to it is hardly conservative. It is reactionary based on little or no understanding or appreciation of civil rights, a secular government instead of a theistic one, and the basic tenets which this country was founded.

When you rank someone based on their political views, you must do so for all their views, not just a handful that you pick and choose. I think it is quite clear that Obama has become far more conservative since taking office, and I think it is because he wants to stay there for another term. Obama is just like all the other career politicians these days. Their opinions are mostly based on the latest polls. But even before he took office, Obama was a moderate at best.

Since liberals only represent 22% of the population of the US, it is almost impossible for them to even get into Congress these days, much less become president. Just look at what happened with Kerry even running against GWB in 2004.

 

[amadeus]

Obama is an authoritarian, but not as authoritarian as his detractors would like him to be.

 

[Formaldehyde]

He is not quite as authoritarian as the Republican presidential candidates this election, other than Dr. Paul who is the glaring exception. But outside of non-democratic regimes and the current government of Israel, who is?