How to get a job (or not)

[downtown]

Yeah, that's strange. I use Taleo every day and I haven't had that particular problem. My biggest pet peeves with Taleo are

1) You have to run it in IE, which means it crashes a lot
2) You can't run a geographic candidate search (show me all candidates within X miles of Y)
3) QC when large reports is an issue (but not with dates).

 

[Zelig]

1) You have to run it in IE, which means it crashes a lot

IE-specific webapps are bad for all kinds of reasons, but crashing isn't really one of them - blame your IT department for giving you a crashy IE (any version other than IE9 or 10 fully updated is unacceptable), or Taleo for making a crashy webapp (which would still be crashy on another browser) - the crashiness isn't IE's fault.

 

[dutchfire]

Might be more difficult than you think.
I know some people who did a bit work in data mining/text mining, and it really seems that parsing PDF files and extracting the correct data is really quite a hazzle and not easy to do. E.g. as one of the mentioned problems, it seems the parsers are not able to correctly read texts with 2 columns and just read over the 2 columns...

And a bit back more on topic: Don't see (in connection with the above) the problem with the taleo system. It extracts the data from the CVs and puts them in an online form, and you can correct the faulty data.
But then again I'm totally suprised that some of the systems cannot handle default data input (CVs with the dates at the beginning). How can you even sell such a thing o_O?

If your thing can't handle PDFs then tell people to upload txt-files only or, probably better, have an online form.

 

[Mise]

So if I'm applying to 20 jobs at 20 different companies, I have to fill out 20 different forms? Seriously, online forms are the WORST.

 

[dutchfire]

You should always optimalize your resume towards the specific position/company you are applying to anyway, you can do this while copy-pasting from your "base resume".
Also, one would hope (naive, I know) that after some time, some sort of industry standard would arise, with the same questions in the same format.

 

[Flying Pig]

I don't really see the incentive for an industry standard in that, though.

 

[downtown]

LinkedIn is starting to become that standard. More firms are allowing your LinkedIn profile to serve as a resume, and that better aligns with ATS systems on the market.

 

[ace99]

So a couple questions, I've (finally) gotten some call backs for the following:

-Email for interview for Field Organizer position in Victory 2012 Coordinated Campaign
-Call for interview for sales position with insurance/financial company
-And of course the National Guard has hooked me up with a recruiter

So I suppose my question is, how do I approach each of these? I suppose both the Field Organizer and sales position are going to be looking for some of the same qualities, what aspects of my experiences should I play up?

 

[downtown]

Well, that kind of depends on your life, doesn't it?

The sales/FO positions are going to want to know about your ability to overcome adversity and be persistent, as both require a TON of cold calling. If you're able to manipulate and understand data, work long hours and fight through the discouragement, you can be effective at both of those gigs.

FOs work completely stupid hours until November though. You will not have time in your life for anything else.

 

[GoodGame]

LinkedIn is starting to become that standard. More firms are allowing your LinkedIn profile to serve as a resume, and that better aligns with ATS systems on the market.

I've noticed this as well, which could make one's LinkedIn connections put under scrutiny.

So it seems that if people could somehow start believing that a demotion was not a punishment or something equally bad, we could all be more effective and happier at what we do...

Hmmm....my experience is that demotions aren't generally offered except in the military, or under a performance pay kind of pay formula. It's more convenient to fire, or threaten to fire, if unemployment is high.

 

[Birdjaguar]

A better path than automated systems is to spend the time to track down the department and hiring manager for a job you really want. Then get your resume into their hands. Find a friend who knows someone who knows someone in the company and then use that person to get you in touch with the person hiring. It is certainly more work, but it also has a better chance of paying off.

 

[ace99]

Is anyone familiar with Teach for America? So far in I'm looking at the following programs in no particular order of preference:

-Americorps
-Peace Corps
-Teach for America
-Teach English abroad
-National Guard
-Army

 

[downtown]

I did Teach for America in New Orleans as a teacher, and I worked for TFA while in college. From a purely professional perspective, it is very useful since you get a huge graduate school bonus, and the post corps professional networking opportunities are very significant. I felt I was totally unprepared to be a teacher when I did it though, and usually hated my job. I don't recommend the program.

Also, to be totally honest, unless you went to a baller college, have an amazing resume/transcript, or a particularly interesting story, there is no way you'll get in. TFA has a lower acceptance rate than most Ivy league schoos.

 

[Cheetah]

A better path than automated systems is to spend the time to track down the department and hiring manager for a job you really want. Then get your resume into their hands. Find a friend who knows someone who knows someone in the company and then use that person to get you in touch with the person hiring. It is certainly more work, but it also has a better chance of paying off.

That's my most preferred way of applying for jobs! I hate filling out online forms for every single jobs I apply for. I've actually dropped applying to jobs because I got fed up with all the forms...

Though I always wonder if the tactic could backfire. Could I end up annoying whoever I send the mail to?

DT (or anyone else for that matter):
Have you ever recruited people from overseas? Would there be any extra things to consider in such cases? Work permits/visas are the main extra obstacle I think, in addition to the distance during the interview process. But is there anything else I should remember?

I ask cause I'm trying to find a job in Japan. Results are grim so far, but I've started to wonder if it would have been much better if I already were there, or already had a work visa in hand. Though I don't expect you know any particulars about the Japanese situation, it would be interesting if you had something to tell.

 

[downtown]

I've noticed this as well, which could make one's LinkedIn connections put under scrutiny.

No it won't. I promise you that nobody will ever check your LinkedIn connections to see if you have any sketchy ones. We only want to look at your job experience. The only time somebody MIGHT look at your connections is if you are applying for a job that requires social media understanding, and we want to make sure you're actually using LinkedIn.

DT (or anyone else for that matter):
Have you ever recruited people from overseas? Would there be any extra things to consider in such cases? Work permits/visas are the main extra obstacle I think, in addition to the distance during the interview process. But is there anything else I should remember?
.

I'm working an overseas search right now actually, and I've done it a few times. It can be hard to find the right kind of Engineer in the US.

My clients typically hate it, since the visa process is 1) expensive and 2) adds a major element of uncertainty to the process. An overseas candidate will only be considered for a highly specific job where finding a local guy would take too long. I hate doing it too, because of the time zone issues. I've had to interview a guy at 6 AM because that was the only time he was free. Dislike.

 

[Zelig]

It can be hard to find the right kind of Engineer in the US.

I'd assume your clients are trying to pay too little. Have they considered adding the visa costs to the salary of a US-based engineer?

Also have you looked at Canada? Canadian engineers don't need sponsorship for TN-1 visas. They just need a job offer, show up at the border with the offer, pay the ~$100 fee for the TN-1 visa, and they're good for three years of work. (Plus a some other pieces of paper, but the job offer is the only thing the employer needs to provide.)

 

[downtown]

I'd assume your clients are trying to pay too little.

Yeah, that's pretty common.

Also have you looked at Canada? Canadian engineers don't need sponsorship for TN-1 visas. They just need a job offer, show up at the border with the offer, pay the ~$100 fee for the TN-1 visa, and they're good for three years of work. (Plus a some other pieces of paper, but the job offer is the only thing the employer needs to provide.)

I have, but the two times I've had to go overseas are when the only companies where we can look for candidates are in the US or China.

 

[GenMarshall]

After giving up for months now of finding a job (Which would make me a discouraged worker if we get technical), I've kind of toeing on trying again in my job search. Though I still don't have high hope and still have a cynical outlook.

I've been pondering on updating my references (I know I should since the ones i've listed is nearly, about five years old). Do I need at least three, or can I get away with only listing two?

Last semester, I was involved with the Bussiness Club at the local Community College. How would I list that in my resume? In my mind, I took it as not just being a member, but donating my own time helping with the club functions. I'd figure I'd be something I'd put under volunteering

I've heard the phrase "faking self-confidence", how would that help me in an interview process if a wear a mask of a confident person while I am still hurting on the inside?

As for LinkedIn, I am very skeptical about that service since it would mean expanding my digital footprint and exposing myself, thnking of it as another facebook where a certain piece of dirty laundry can break you. I am also skeptical on how it would help me. While on the other side of the coin, I have that "what do I got to lose" mentality on setting one up. I'm not even sure if its appropriate for the unemployed, or how to talor it for the needs of the unemployed (like myself).

I'm not sure what reputable temp agencies there are in my area nor am I 100% positive that they would work around my schedule for this semester. I never ask or was just ignorant out of my own frustration of my current state. Would temp agencies take into consideration that I still have classes? Even if I'm an adult student.

I know people are going to roll eyes and say "there he goes again, complaining that he doesn't have a job again". Largely, the motivation on this change are rooted in these complaints that I've been getting. I still have enlistment into the Army on the back of my mind and I hope it does not come to that.

 

[Flying Pig]

how would that help me in an interview process if a wear a mask of a confident person while I am still hurting on the inside?

If you can put yourself across as someone with self-confidence, that's all you need, really. Unless you're going for a leadership job - in which case you do need to be able to trust yourself when all men doubt you - that means that you can persuade people that you know what you're doing: this is useful in most jobs, especially anything that involves talking to customers, but your bluff won't be actually called in many.

 

[downtown]

I've been pondering on updating my references (I know I should since the ones i've listed is nearly, about five years old). Do I need at least three, or can I get away with only listing two?

First, you don't have to give these at all unless somebody asks for them...don't bother mentioning references on your resume. I think you can get away with 2 references if one of them is a professional reference. If not, go for three personal references...a friend, somebody from school, a professor, etc.

There is a pretty good chance nobody will even ask for them though.

Last semester, I was involved with the Bussiness Club at the local Community College. How would I list that in my resume? In my mind, I took it as not just being a member, but donating my own time helping with the club functions. I'd figure I'd be something I'd put under volunteering

Sounds like a good thing to mention under other activities or interests, at the end of your resume. You COULD mention it under your university in your education section as well.

I've heard the phrase "faking self-confidence", how would that help me in an interview process if a wear a mask of a confident person while I am still hurting on the inside?

Because nobody can see your inside but you. If you can fake it, thats good enough.

As for LinkedIn, I am very skeptical about that service since it would mean expanding my digital footprint and exposing myself, thnking of it as another facebook where a certain piece of dirty laundry can break you. I am also skeptical on how it would help me. While on the other side of the coin, I have that "what do I got to lose" mentality on setting one up. I'm not even sure if its appropriate for the unemployed, or how to talor it for the needs of the unemployed (like myself).

LinkedIn is great. It's the number one way for a recruiter to find you...I certainly use it more than Careerbuilder, Monster, Craigslist, or another other resume board. You shouldn't worry too much about privacy since your contact info isn't on your LinkedIn page, and there isn't a place to post embarrassing pictures.

If you don't have a job, you can use your page to highlight what you'd like to do. Join LinkedIn groups for industries you're interested in, and comment on their discussions. It's a good way to network, pick the brains of people who have jobs, and get your name out.

I'm not sure what reputable temp agencies there are in my area nor am I 100% positive that they would work around my schedule for this semester. I never ask or was just ignorant out of my own frustration of my current state. Would temp agencies take into consideration that I still have classes? Even if I'm an adult student.

The only way to know is to show up and ask. Temp agencies are a pretty good place to start if you have a big gap on your resume, and have time constraints. The other places you should go to is your local city councilman (there may be a govt job fair or resources), and your CC's employment center.