Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
People also have a right to associate and join part of any group they want to and not join groups that they don't want to. You can't force integration.
Integration Ruined Schools
- Thread starter Leonel
- Start date
People also have a right to associate and join part of any group they want to and not join groups that they don't want to. You can't force integration.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
That's not what I mean. You can't force group of people to blend. Even if they go to the same school. The black kids still hung out with the black kids and the white kids still hung out with the white kids. Its still much the same today.
aelf
Ashen One
You can bring the horse to water, but you cannot make it drink; but if you didn't bring the horse to water, how can it drink?
Right, but school integration doesn't mean whites and blacks bro-ing it up at the lunch table. It means having access to the same educational resources, and the ability to study together. I don't really care too much if nobody talks to each other...we didn't integrate schools for some kind of social experiment.
This wasn't the case prior to the 1960s, and it becoming increasingly not the case now. The SC was right...you cannot have a separate and equal educational facility.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
The kids from the inner city(usually African American minorities) that get bussed in to the richer schools almost always hang out together exclusively and hardly ever do well. The system of sticking poor kids in rich schools I don't think actually works. You bring them to the school, but they associate with the same crowd and don't really improve.
This is in stark contrast to the newly arriving Black Kids who usually come from well educated families. They are some of the highest achievers. The two groups usually don't associate with each other.
Maybe things have changed in the last ten years since I was in high school, but I highly doubt it. Its really hard to equalize schools, because even if they have the same funding, just being located in a better neighborhood makes a big difference.
But you cannot force segregation either. And that is what is happening.
If conservatives believe this, then there isn't a point in school vouchers and there isn't a point in any of the reforms to change and elevate the teaching profession. It would become apparent that those polices would just be to defund public schools or break teacher's unions. I don't think many people feel that way.
School integration, again, isn't about social assimilation. A poor kid in a "rich" school (or in this case, a black kid in a "white school) is going to have a better shot even if he puts himself in social isolation, because a "black school", by it's very nature, will almost surely have lower social capital and worse teachers.
Brian Shanahan
Permanoob
And so do the rich blacks.
But what about the poor whites? Think their children are inculcated with the desire to achieve in schools?
Maybe he just doesn't like the Moran clan of Ahane in Limerick. Frankly I wouldn't blame him, they're a right shower.
Well yeah, that IS the ONLY purpose of about 99% of conservatives' educational goals. It's been a veiled attempt to destroy public education for decades, there's little more to it on the conservative side. The point of school voucher plans proposed by any conservative, for instance, has always been to weaken public education and promote private (religious, though a few people probably are just crazy enough to be totally pro-corporation) education.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
Kids should just go to the school of which district they are in, regardless of what race you are. Lawfully, school should not be able to discriminate based on color but I don't think there should be an "integration fund" to especially force integration.
School should be centrally controlled by the state and thats where funds should be divided, not at the local level. Of course, that would mean a flat property tax rate for the entire state.
RedRalph
Deity
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I'm quite surprised to hear that because here I see black and white kids hanging out together all the time and I would think of the US as having much better integration than us
Well, yeah. Integration programs happen more in one district than across multiple districts.
Again, (I don't know how many times I have to say this), it isn't really about money. It's about social capital. The southern states often spent more money on their blacks schools than their white ones leading up to integration court rulings in an attempt to stave off legal action...look! they're separate *and* equal!
It also wouldn't have to mean a flat property tax rate.
Mango Elephant
Deity
Well, I see black and white kids hanging out all the time too, but some people do have a tendancy to pretty much only hang out with their race. They're weirdos, though. I think Fallen is from Minnesota, though, and that is the state that this video was filmed in.
Link to video.
Archbob
Ancient CFC Guardian
I don't live in Minnesota. I've lived in NY, Missouri, Arkansas, and ow Wisconsin. Its about the same everywhere, the majority of the time, minorities simply don't integrate very well when their bussed from poor neighborhoods to rich ones.
I mean, by law, school should not be able to discriminate on race. But, I'm not sure if I support this bussing program. It might actually be hurting more kids than helping them.
I mean, by law, school should not be able to discriminate on race. But, I'm not sure if I support this bussing program. It might actually be hurting more kids than helping them.
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
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No it was the green kids. Gumby told me so.
Edited:
This senator is clearly just a
Edit: Ok leonel, don't go putting words in the mouth stating "black people" when the speech is actually discussing bussing. Nothing in the speech brings up race specifically other than the comment about "segregation" as if it were a law, which I dunno might be code speak to a KKK constituency, who knows.
I remember integration from the sixties. When my high school (private) accepted its first black student it was into my class. I remember to this day being told by a classmate that the "ni...... would try and date my girl friend". Integration was ugly, but not as ugly as the segregation that preceded it. The whites only bathrooms and drinking fountains are long gone. Just thinking that someone of another race (any other race) was attractive was completely unacceptable. School integration is a tough problem, people don't like change and Holicanoli has nailed much of it. Parents and families are the root of the issue. We have come a very long way since 1960 and American society is much less racist than it has been. We are making progress and another generation will see us even closer to a raceless society. The baby boomers have to all die off first.
Less openly racist, sure, but in terms of integration, no way. The US is as segregated today as it was in the 1960s.
GoodGame
Red, White, & Blue, baby!
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Not where live. They even let my kind use the restroom and water fountains.
You are wrong. People may harbor racist attitudes and even speak out in a racist manner, but almost all of the structural racist underpinnings of the pre 1960s America are gone. People are slower to change and usually have to die off to see their attitudes replaced. The sixties hardened the baby boomers into two groups: those who embraced the changes of of that time and those who didn't. Today's tea partiers are often of the latter group. When the baby boomers die out, much of the old racism will die with them. It is your job to keep it from being replaced by some new racism.
