Iron and Blood 2 - Game Thread

[JohannaK]

So now my orders will have to be updated.

 

[arya126]

I go to sleep and this happens......can somebody clarify just how come a defensive pact can be used to justify the USNA declaring war on me? Or how the Mediterranean Federation just declared war on me? I am honestly confused on how this just became A Trans-Atlantic war.

 

[Terrance888]

Sorry, wrong forumgame/post/thread.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

See you declared war on us (me, Turkey and Moscow), the USNA has a dp with me, and remember you went to war with me not the other way around.

 

[Robert Can't]

I go to sleep and this happens......can somebody clarify just how come a defensive pact can be used to justify the USNA declaring war on me? Or how the Mediterranean Federation just declared war on me? I am honestly confused on how this just became A Trans-Atlantic war.

The Mediterranean confederation and the UNSA had a defensive alliance with Bosnia, when you declared war on Bosnia they reacted.

 

[DroopyTofu]

But Bosnia is the aggressor and France was reacting to defend it's ally, so Bosnia's DP's should not be enacted; primarily because it started the war in the first place.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

I didn't start the war, Turkey did, and I had an alliance with it, and our DP doesn't care why someone attacked us, he still attacked me not the other way around. Thats how global DPs and alliances look like, look at WW1 or WW2

 

[Mosher]

I'm pretty sure that France had a DP with Istanbul, so he honoured it and went to war. The USNA joining is acceptable, if a bit sketchy... but the Med. Federation declaring war looks to be a simple war of aggression that shouldn't be allowed, as it was made after the declaration lock, if I recall correctly.

 

[Robert Can't]

I'm pretty sure that France had a DP with Istanbul, so he honoured it and went to war. The USNA joining is acceptable, if a bit sketchy... but the Med. Federation declaring war looks to be a simple war of aggression that shouldn't be allowed, as it was made after the declaration lock, if I recall correctly.

The Mediterranean confederation did already have a defensive pact with Bosnia just as the UNSA had.

 

[BSmith1068]

The Kingdom of Wagadou confirms it has joined the African Defense Pact

 

[NedimNapoleon]

EVERYONE THAT HAD A DP WITH ME CAN JOIN. End of the story.

 

[arya126]

I'm pretty sure that France had a DP with Istanbul, so he honoured it and went to war. The USNA joining is acceptable, if a bit sketchy... but the Med. Federation declaring war looks to be a simple war of aggression that shouldn't be allowed, as it was made after the declaration lock, if I recall correctly.

This. I did not declare war in the conventional sense of starting a war. I declared war in reaction to you attacking the country I had a DP with. In the RESPONSE DOW period. I don't even think you can react to DOWs in the response period can you?

 

[mayor]

Why not? it is a response DOW isn't it...

 

[arya126]

Why not? it is a response DOW isn't it...

Its a response to a response. A DP reacting to another DP being activated.

 

[Joecoolyo]

So this is what, an Ottoman War of Succession/French Unification War/American Intervention Just-For-Lulz?

War of Rebel Aggression with American, French, and Russian intervention.

Anyways, good thing this happened now, cause we need some serious rule clarifications or serious ramifications to what just happened.

Here is what happened:

[Original DOW period]
-Free City of Istanbul is attacked by Bosnia, Anatolia, and Russia
-Caliphate honors defensive agreement and declares war in defense of Free City [Response]
-France honors defensive agreement and declares war in defense of the Free City [Response]
[End of Original DOW period]
[Response period begins]
-America declares war in defense of Bosnia, the aggressor [Orignal DOW outside of the DOW period]
-Pyrenees declares war in defense of Bosnia, the aggressor [Original DOW outside of DOW period]
[Response period continues]

Obviously, the two last DOW do not make a lick of sense. A defensive pact is signed in case a country is attacked by another, not for when a country attacks and triggers defensive pacts on the other side. If you allow that, what separates defensive pacts from alliances? They're basically the same exact thing at that point. Tailless you have to draw the line here, or this entire game is going to get screwed up with loophole-ly stuff like this. Either these last two declarations should be declared null, or both countries face serious internal ramifications, riots, loss of IC, loss of territory to rebels, etc. for declaring war outside of the DOW period using deceptive reasoning.

tl;dr Tailless needs to fix defensive pacts so they don't work like alliances, last two DOW are not valid, and should either be nullified or both countries face serious internal ramifications

I came to play the game by the rules, not by loopholes and other deceptive crap like this. Defensive pacts are defensive pacts, NOT alliances. If you can't get that straight, then don't play the game.

 

[mayor]

So?
The activation of the DP you had with Istanbul made you declare war on Bosnia.
The declaration on Bosnia triggered the DP Bosnia had with Mediterranean and UNSA...

EDIT: @Joecoolyo, do you know what those nations agreed upon when signing their agreement? I think not. If they agreed to come to the aid if war was declared upon the other even in the event that this DOW was triggered by a DP. That isn't a loophole, it is an agreement.

 

[NedimNapoleon]

The responses were in the original DoW response time frame. Now you're trying to use this as a way to destroy us, Tailless, if you do as he said it will really hurt this games rep for being objective and ruled by rules. It said nothing in the rules that a nation cant use its DP even if the other one is attacked because he is the attacker, if it was in the rules I wouldn't have called for the DP but it wasn't mentioned anywhere so it completely legal.

 

[Joecoolyo]

So?
The activation of the DP you had with Istanbul made you declare war on Bosnia.
The declaration on Bosnia triggered the DP Bosnia had with Mediterranean and UNSA...

Bosnia was not reacting to your DOW with a defensive pact, i.e. because of your alliance he was an aggressor, and is no longer on a defensive stance. Defensive pacts are considered nullified for the rest of this war due to his original DOW.

If not, then there is no difference between defensive pacts and alliances, and this game just became screwed over.

 

[Joecoolyo]

EDIT: @Joecoolyo, do you know what those nations agreed upon when signing their agreement? I think not. If they agreed to come to the aid if war was declared upon the other even in the event that this DOW was triggered by a DP. That isn't a loophole, it is an agreement.

Then they were alliances, not defensive pacts. And NOT valid during the response phase, which is used to help the victim in the war, not the aggressor.

The responses were in the original DoW response time frame. Now you're trying to use this as a way to destroy us, Tailless, if you do as he said it will really hurt this games rep for being objective and ruled by rules. It said nothing in the rules that a nation can use its DP even if the other one is attacked.

The hell you talking about? Original phase is 48 hours after update, which means it ended Friday evening.

 

[Sonereal]

For this debate, I quote TK.

GM Ruling:

Declaring war without a formal alliance or defence pact is possible but not encouraged, as it may lead to discontent among your populace, depending on how they feel about the countries you are supporting, the countries you are fighting against, and going to war in general.