MB3 - Old Testament Bunfight

[Northern Pike]

Another strong turn. Clever use of partial rushes, Ted.

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by Northern Pike
Clever use of partial rushes, Ted.

I generally try to do this as often as I can now. I first started doing it in the later game when you can easily lose 20 or more shields by not buying the last two production turns. I soon realised that it's just as significant in the early game


Ted

 

[Earp]

Here are the first 5 turns. I'll finish the next 5 tomorrow.

0 - 410 BC
Rome - polite - 153 gold - up Eng, Theo
Greece - polite - 0 gold - up Theo
Persia - polite - 120 gold - tech parity
Zulu - polite - 120 gold - down Mono
Celts - polite - 435 gold - up Eng, Theo
Egypt - furious - 9 gold - up Eng, Theo
Babylon - polite - 88 gold - up Eng, Theo
Aztecs - polite - 88 gold - up Theo
Iroquois - cautious - 16 gold - down Mono
Carthage - polite - 0 gold - tech parity
Sell Iron to Celts for 435 gold and WM
Sell Mono to Zulu for 120 gold
Sell Dyes to Babylon for 4 gpt, WM, and 46 gold.
We have 4 foreign workers and one Ottoman worker standing on a wheat that we can not work.

IBT Iroquois and Celts sign a Peace treaty
The Zulus want a RoP. No thanks.
Entremont finishes Sistines.

1 - 390 BC
Vet horse vs reg spear on hill with iron. Spear loses one hp, we redline and retreat.
Vet horse vs 2/3 spear on hill with iron. We lose one hp and win.
Rome, Persia, Celts, Egypt, Babylon, and Aztecs have Chivalry
Greece lacks Eng, Chiv
Persia lacks Eng
Give Rome Dyes, WM, and 650 gold for Engineering
Five Persia Eng, WM, and 50 gold for Chivalry
Give Greece Eng and Civ for WM and Theology
We gain Eng, Chiv and Theo for 700 gold
Rome, Celts, Babylon, and Aztecs have Education
I turn off the 40 turn research. I think most techs will become available long before the 40 turns are up.

IBT The Aztecs want us to ally against the Zulu. We sell them our WM for 1 gold instead.

2 - 370 BC
Buy Babylonian worker for WM and 118 gold.
No new techs.
Sell WM

IBT Aztecs and Persia sign a MA against Greece

3 - 350 BC
Constantinople Pike --> Settler
Adrianople Market --> Library
Sinop's barracks switched to a settler and rushed. Some towns are being razed and there is some prime real estate to re-settle.
Sell WM

IBT Celts and Aztecs sign a MA against Greece
Celts and Zulu sign peace

4 - 330 BC
Sinop Settler --> Barracks
Rome has Invention.

5 - 310 BC
Konya Pike --> Temple
The people expand our palace
Now Rome, Celts, and Babylon have Invention

 

[TedJackson]

Originally posted by Earp
We have 4 foreign workers and one Ottoman worker standing on a wheat that we can not work.

Oops

Good trading


Ted

 

[Earp]

The next 5 turns:

6 - 290 BC
Constantinople Settler --> Pike
Brusa --> Market
Sell WM for 14 gold
Rome - Gracious - 1175 gold - up Inv, Edu - lacks horses(we only have one source)
Greece - polite - 13 gold - up Edu - lacks horses and iron
Persia - cautious - 18 gold - tech parity
Zulu - annoyed - 9 gold - down Eng, Theo, Chiv - lacks Horses
Celts - polite - 4 gold - up Inv, Edu
Egypt - furious(at war) - 0 gold - up Edu
Babylon - polite - 14 gold - up Inv, Edu
Aztecs - polite - 0 gold - up Edu, lacks iron
Iroquois - cautious - 2 gold - down End, Theo, Chiv - lacks Iron and Horses
Carthage - polite - 16 gold - down End, Theo, Chiv - lacks Iron and Horses

7 - 270 BC
Adrianople Library --> Pike
Vet Horse vs Elite warrior on mnt. We take two hp, redline, and retreat
Vet MDI vs 3/5 warrior on mnt. We win w/o losing a hp.
Sell WM for 9 gold

IBT Zulu and Carthage sign a peace treaty

8 - 250 BC
Adana Barracks --> Market
Found Salonika. This city will give us another Wine and Iron. It might be too far from our fp to ever be very productive.

Found Mugla. This city is in the first ring around our capital and will be very productive once the jungle is cleared.

Sell WM for 6 gold
Buy Persia worker for WM and 119 gold
Buy 2 Babylonian workers for WM and 237 gold

IBT Greece and Egypt sign a peace treaty
Rome and Zulu sign a peace treaty

9 - 230 BC
Constantinople Pike --> Knight
Aydin Library --> Harbor
Hire a taxman in Izmit. I don't want to raise lux slider for one city
Sell WM

IBT Renew RoP with Rome, but we stop paying him 2 gpt

10 - 210 BC
Adrianople Pike --> Knight
Rome, Celts, Babs, Aztecs are up atleast Inv and Edu
Greece and Egypt are up Edu
Persia is at tech parity
Zulu, Iroquois, and Carthage are behind in techs
I could wait for Persia to gain a tech and then get Inv and Edu cheaper, but I am afraid they will get both the same turn and we will lose the opportunity for a 2fer.
The Celts have the cheapest price for Invention because we can also trade them wines. We need to be sure we do not lose the source of wines or we may have trouble making gpt deals in the future.
Buy Inv from Celts for WM, wines, 35 gpt, and 315 gold
Trade WM, Inv, and 50 gold to Greece for Edu
We get two techs, Edu and Inv, for wines, 35 gpt, and 365 gold. Techs cost us about 2000 gold if we research them ourselves.

Our MAs against Egypt will last another 10 turns. We have lots of troops available for upgrade. We are at tech parity with the leaders.

The Aztecs have two Iroquois workers for sale for about 285 gold, but I leave the decision on whether or not to buy them to the next leader.

I was planning on irrigating these squares. Building mines will be useless because of the corruption in these cities. I am not sure if we might be better off moving these workers back to our core so that they can improve tiles that will give us more return.

Our world

The SAVE

 

[mad-bax]

Looks good Earp.

I see it but will not be playing until Tuesday. All my SG's seem to be in synch ATM.

 

[Northern Pike]

Nice trading, Earp. I'm sure you were right to take the twofer as soon as it became available, given that this is deity.

BTW, can you add that neat lettering to a screenshot using Paint, or is a more sophisticated graphics program necessary?

 

[Earp]

Northern Pike,

I actually waited a few turns before making the 2fer. At turn 6, 3 civs had Invention. At turn 10, 4 civs had Invention and it was a little bit cheaper.

I used Paint to add the lettering to the screenshot.

 

[Northern Pike]

Ah, OK. You got away with it.

Thanks; I hadn't known this was possible with Paint.

 

[mad-bax]

210BC: Pre-turn
Hurried Market in Uskadar for 52g
Changed production in Sinop to settler and hurried for 96g. I want to grab th spices to the incense to the south.
Buy Iroquois worker for WM+ 141g
Send new worker to chop dyes forrest. Might be a but the commerce would be useful at 2 food.

IBT:
Rome and Celts sign MA against Greece.
Ivory trade with celts comes up for renewel. I decide to take it. It costs 16gpt this time.
Uskadar Market - Knight.
Sinop Settler - rax

190BC:
Lots of Celtic troops moving through our territory. Nearly all regulars though.
Worker turns. I have to say the way the territory has been improved is really impressive.

IBT:
Zulu and Iroquois sign a peace treaty.
Babylon and Celts sign MA against Greece. They (the Greeks) are gonna get stuffed.

170BC:
Worker turns.
No new tech on the market. Tech pace seems to have ground to a halt.

IBT:
Konya temple - Knight
Aah. The Greeks start Leos.

150BC:
Found Denizli - Library. A slightly aggressive placement.
Hurry Market in Izmit for 52g
No new techs learned.

IBT:
Egypt and Carthage sign peace.
Egypt want peace. I could get Byblos in deal. But I refuse.
Izmit market - rax
Antalya market - knight
pe-ople library - pike
Romans start Leos

130BC:
Workers work.
Need to do something with our gold as it will get extorted out of us soon.

IBT:
Zulu and Aztecs sign peace treaty.
Constantinople knight - knight

110BC:
Decided to bring down our reserve be short rushing some stuff.

IBT:
Babylon wants a ROP. Errm. Okaaay. (Not really sure)
Adrianopole knight - knight
Iznik FP - Market

90BC:
Rome and Celts learn gunpowder.
Trade Iroquois furs + 6g for Theology.
Hmmm. Gunpowder is an important tech for us. Shall I buy it?
Hawk WM
Greece can't trade with either of the gunpowder civs, so I might get some money back.
In the end I decide to hold of and start a wandering scientist research on printing press.

IBT:
Persians want an Alliance against the Greeks and ROP. I refuse for now. Though it's worth thinking about. Everyone is dogpiling the Greeks anyway, and I see no reason at the moment to make the commitment.

70BC:
Hurry library in multiple for 12g.
Hurry library in Denizli for 144g (ouch) to protect incense.
We can actually afford 50% research now and still not run a deficit. That puts us on around 11 to 12 turn research.

IBT:
Egypt and Aztecs sign peace.
Brusa Market - knight
Uskadar Knight - Library
Izmit rax - knight
Adana market - knight
Multiple library - Pike
Denizli library - Pike
Babylonians are building Copernicus.

50BC:
Babs and Celts have Astronomy.
Buy Astronomy from Babs for 372g + 63gpt
Gunpowder from Rome for Astronomy + 6gpt
Gunpowder to Greece for 90g + 8gpt. More to give them some defence than for the trade.
I know it's a lot of money, but it's the best I could do. We are still making 86gpt clear.
We have a couple of source of salt. Neither is connected.

IBT:
Nothing Happened.

30BC:
Start connecting salt.

IBT:
Aztecs want ROP. No.
Rome and Babylon decide to commit suicide and sign MA against the Zulu. Yippidee dooh dah!
Constantinople knight - knight
Konya knight - university - to combat cultural pressure.

10BC:
Hurried Temple in Salonika.

That is it.

Here is a picture.

Here is the <<save>>.

 

[mad-bax]

OK. Trades and deals etc. permitting I think we should go after the two Iroquois towns Tonowanda and Mauch Chunk. They are Strategically impotant and will give us another Lux. By the time we get there they should have grown so we should take them in tact.

There are more Celt and Zulu units in our territory than you could safely shake a stick at. The war between Rome and the Zulu could turn out to be great. Hispalis, Virconium and Cumae would make a fine addition to our holdings, and give us complete control of the centre of our map.


Space: You are UP. Good luck

 

[TedJackson]

Good turns mad-bax

With Space going next I doubt if there'll be much left for me to do

I agree with the aim of controlling the centre of the map. In fact, it looks as if the map were designed with that in mind

How about a sweepstake on who's going to be the first among us to give in and go on the offensive


Ted

 

[Karasu]

Originally posted by TedJackson
How about a sweepstake on who's going to be the first among us to give in and go on the offensive

That won't be me!

Well played, Mad! Looks like you've been pretty busy these days...


I cannot check the save yet, so I am not sure of the status of our trades and agreements with Iros and Rome, but I agree with taking those Iros and Roman cities.
Their war with the Zulus is particularly tempting...

 

[a space oddity]

Got it, will play tomorrow.

I've looked at the current deals: we have still 18 turns to go on a Roman deal and 9 on a Iroq deal. The latter is just us getting Furs. We could break that without a rep blow. Having said that, I thnk we need to build up our military first and allowing the Zulu troops to do their bit picking off some of their units.

edit: I did not have time to look at the report before, but that was great play Mad. Money is there to spend. The slightly aggresive settling will allow the Cathegians to declare war when we want to by nudging them slightly. I agree it good the Babs are at war and will be kept in the war for a time being by Rome. The Celts are the only Civ who is not really hurt by war yet, it would be good if they got involved in the Bab+Rome/Zulu conflict.

I agree with the aim of controlling the centre of the map. In fact, it looks as if the map were designed with that in mind

Yes, it would seem so, maybe now we know why MB didn't want to play first.
Although I have the feeling a certain dogpile danger was specifically in mind also...

 

[a space oddity]

goal:
Build up military.

pre-turn:
Cash hurry Lib in Uskudar to avoid shield loss. (OK Ted...? )
Adrianople gets the travelling scientist.

IT:
Babs come to talk about the MA against Egypt, we do not renew it, exchange WMs instead.
Rome and Greece sign a peace treaty.
Rome wants to renew the MA against Egypt, sell him our WM for WM+4g.
Adianople Knight -> Knight
Uskudar Lib -> Pike
Salonika Temple -> Lib

10AD - turn 1:
Start forest chop in Sinop to speed up Rax build.
The wandering scientist takes up perminent residence in Adrianople as it has more citizens then workable tiles.
Babs pay 1g for our WM.
We're free to sign peace with Egypt and receive 2 Workers and WM+3g (all they have).
Accidently upgrade a Horse to Knight, too lazy to start again and not to bad a move anyway (I hope).

IT:
Dyes deal with the Babs end, I think I can get more money so negotiate, it was 4gpt, now 7gpt + 8g.
Zulu and Persia sign a peace treaty.

30AD - turn 2:
Sell MW to the Celts for WM+3g
Sell MW to the Zulu for WM+4g
Sell MW to the Persia for WM+6g
Sell MW to the Greece for WM+7g
Hurry Temple in Mugla

IT:
Antalya Knight -> Knight
Mugla Temple -> Lib

50AD - turn 3:
Chop is ready so hurry Rax in Sinop.
Sell WM to Cartage for WM+6g
Babs and Celts have Music Theory, we can get it from the Celts with a discount with luxes, but we don't need it yet.

IT:
Brusa Knight -> Knight
Iznik Market -> Uni (veto-able)
Uskudar Pike -> Musket
Sinop Rax -> Longbow
Celts and Babs start Bach's

70AD - turn 4:
Celts and Babs have Chemistry now, no broker opportunity. We could buy but for the moment I will not. It seems the Zulu only hit on the Aztec, the Babs are left alone for the time being.
Hurry Knight in C'ople and Izmit.
We're winning the cultural war with the Celts for the time being, they are clearing jungle for *us* now.

IT:
Cartage wants to talk, sure, they want an alliance against Persia, errrm, no.
Zulu want to talk, sure, he wants to exchange maps, ok, you'll put 2g in as well? Ok.
Rome wants to talk, sure, alliance against the Zulu? Tempting... no! Lets do WMs instead, you'll give 1 extra gold, yeah sure.
C'ople Knight -> Knight
Izmit Knight -> Musket

90AD - turn 5:
Hurry Pike in Multiple.
Sell Dyes to Greece for WM + 36g + 3gpt. (all they have)
Sell WM to Iroqs for WM + 7g. (all they have)

IT:
Babs and Zulu sign peace , so much for their rep.
A'nople Knight -> Knight
Adana Knight -> Knight
Multiple Pike -> Cat

110AD - turn 6:
Hurry Lib in Mugla.
Upgrade Horse to Knight.
Sell Wm for WM+7g (all they have) to Aztecs.
Sell Wm for WM+3g to Egypt.
Mmm Babylon and Rome don't have saltpeter...

IT:
The Persians are winning it from Carthage.

130AD - turn 7:
Hurry Uni in Konya.
Hurry Knight in Anatalya.
Hawk MP around, I'm amazed at the amount of money that can be made.

IT:
Iroquois and Greece sign peace.
Anatalya Knight -> Knight
Konya Uni -> Market
Romans complete Leo's.

150AD - turn 8:
Aztecs now have Music Theory
Babs now know Banking too, the Celts don't. Rome suddenly also have MT, Banking and Chemistry.
Mmmm, we still have 10 turns to go on a current deal with Rome, but buying Banking from Babs will mean we'll fund them for over 100gpt for the next 10 turns... and I don't want to supply them with Saltpeter. Not buying Banking will mean a missed brokerage opportunity for Chemistry, which we really want. What's more, the link with Babylonia goes through Roman terratory. Ok, I decide not to buy any of it and gamble on the war with Rome to get those techs, 10 turns to up our military force even more. We have an average military with them already.

IT:
Zulu's finally arrive near Roman cities, they are large in numbers but weak.
Uskudar Knight -> Knight

170AD - turn 9:
Hurry Knight in Brusa.
Hurry Pike in Pe-ople.
Hawk WM around, not much to be gained this time.

IT:
Rome wants to renew the RoP, no, x-change WM instead.
Constantinople Knight -> Knight
Brusa Knight -> Knight
Pe-ople Pike -> Cat
Sparta complete Copernicus'

190AD - turn 10:
Upgrade some more Horses, our total number of Knights is now 21.

Well, pretty uneventful turns really. We're a bit behind in science with the leaders, but it looks worse then it really is. Too bad the Babs made peace, the good news is they lack Saltpeter. I really had to think hard about the buying vs waiting alternatives, I hope I made the right choice.

Who wants to play with Knights

 

[mad-bax]

Karasu: You're UP.

OK. So we have enough knights to take the 5 cities that are our primary target. Since Rome has no Salt (yet), and the iroquois towns are unlikely to have rax we should only face pikes. The trick will be avoiding a dogpile as we will have to defend everywhere.

There are a few turns left on the Roman deal. IIRC we have no obligations to the Iroquois. So I vote Karasu gets stuck in.

Space. Our military is stonger or on a par with everyone else.

EDIT: Having looked at the save there are 6 turns left on a furs deal with the iroqs and 8 turns left on a peace deal with the Romans. I guess that sorts out the attack plan.

EDIT2: I believe there is an opportunity to squeeze in another town East of Sinop.

 

[Northern Pike]

Strong turn, Space Oddity. We're building our position up beautifully, and Sipahis aren't too far in the future now.

The Carthaginians may not be long for this world, given their war with the Persians, and under normal circumstances this would be a perfect opportunity to vulture up some of their cities. Circumstances aren't exactly normal, since they have a lot of hill towns undoubtedly held by Numidians, and we could end up losing an unacceptable number of knights for a minor war. Still, it might be worth taking their cities on flatland and tentatively attacking some of those on hills, breaking off operations if necessary before our losses become unpleasant.

 

[a space oddity]

Thanks, guys. I did consider the Carthageans, but as you say NP we don't want to face those Numidians on hills with just Knights.
On the other hand will the Persians be pretty weak now too, spread out thinly I presume. It's by far the weakest leg of the cross.

 

[TedJackson]

Nice solid turns Space

Can't wait for the Sipahi


Ted

 

[Karasu]

Mates,
I've had some unexpected family problems that will keep me away from the forum until Monday.
So, please skip me for this round.