MB3 - Old Testament Bunfight

Originally posted by Northern Pike
...I'm still strongly pro-republic, and if we could make you an honorary player in this game, that would be a 3-3-1 split in the voting....
Click to expand...

That still makes it a tie... as the one on the fence I'll put the pro's and con's up:

Monarchy:
pro - MP (= no WW but limits freedom to move troops)
con - lower income (= limits research possibilities)

Republic:
pro - higher income
con - no MP effect - WW (=need for short wars, limiting MAs)

What everybody agrees on: once chosen we'll have to stick with it.

I guess I'm still on the fence. What tends to influence me is that I usually limit my wars too much. I never have played an entire game in Monarchy and I'm in for new experiences...
 
Originally posted by mad-bax
Also if we are going to station 3 or 4 units in every city, where will our attack force come from?
Click to expand...
IIRC I said allow a garrison of 2 per town.

We seem to be torn on the best Government to choose so I suggest we have a recount. I won't play for another 5 or 6 hours to allow some sort of concensus.

I still vote for Monarchy but you are all welcome to try and change my mind :)

Originally posted by mad-bax
Stamps foot, pouts in a childlike manner and slams door on effecting his exit. :)
Click to expand...
That's the trouble with warmongers... They turn all pouty when they don't get their own way :D


Ted (ducking to avoid the axe MB will be swinging in my direction)
 
I think we can manage WW in 20 turn wars. We're going to be using fast units. All we need is a little discipline in ending a units turn outside enemy borders. This does limit oportunism a little.
The difference in research rate between Monarch and republic is huge, and we are a scientific civ busy slapping down libraries like nobodies business. The tech rate in this game is going to be ridiculous. It's a crowded pangea for heavens sake. No waiting for navigation here.

Come on Space. Get off that fence. :) (as long as you vote for republic).
 
Given the fact that we are going for a conquest/domination type victory and will be fighting lots of wars, I still vote for a Monarchy. But like Ted, I am flexible, and it would be possible to change my mind with a persuasive argument for a Republic.
 
Three more arguments for a republic:

1. There's no monster enemy out there (Xerxes must have overslept :) ), just ten opponents with medium-to-small empires. Against foes on this scale we shouldn't need to conduct long wars.

2. Our trade position is strong, with four native luxuries (once we get Sinop's wines hooked up) and spare iron to exchange for the other four. With these advantages, we don't really need military policemen and we don't have to fear war weariness.

3. The small size of our army right now means that we won't be hit with a painful upkeep bill when we make the transition. We might as well get the collateral benefits of being so weak.

More broadly, this is not the building-versus-fighting debate in another form. As Jack has made clear, republic properly employed is better for both courses of action.
 
This observation may come too late to matter, but I'm not certain that Karasu has ever taken a definite postion on republic versus monarchy. So we may be at a 2-2-2 split.
 
Okay, in the interest of keeping this SG moving, I'll change my vote to Republic. We just need to keep our wars short and sweet and maintain just enough enough troops to fight our wars.
 
King Ted sighs, steps down from his throne, and hands the reins of power over to the newly elected President.

"You haven't seen the last of me!" he vows as he strides from the room with nary a backward glance.

Oh well, at least it'll stop mad-bax throwing his toys out of the pram :D


Ted
 
Pre-flight checks... OK :goodjob:

Press button...
Iroquois declare war on Zulu :)
Greece & Egypt sign Peace Treaty :(
Our RoP comes up for renewal - Caesar initially baulks but I up the ante to 2gpt and he agrees giving me his WM & TM into the bargain :)
Anarchy ends - I toss a coin... and give in and go Republic

1 - 610BC
We have 547gp and are making +68gpt (better than I expected) - happiness is OK as well
Sinop hurries Lib for 104gp
Buy Ivory, WM & TM from Celts for 37gp + 10gpt
Sell WM to Zulu for WM, TM + 11gp
Buy WM, TM & slave from Aztec for WM + 119gp
Sell WM to Greece for WM, TM + 2gp (broke)
Sell WM to Persia for WM, TM + 7gp
Sell WM to Iroquois for WM & TM (broke)
Sell WM to Persia for WM & TM (broke)
Sell WM to Carthage for WM & TM (broke)
Sell WM to Celts for WM, TM + 12gp
Sell WM to Rome for WM, TM + 2gp (broke)
Sell WM to Zulu for WM, TM + 5gp
Sell WM to Aztec for WM, TM + 1gp

IBT
Carthage wants MA vs Persia - I turn him down
Greece and Babylon sign MA vs Persia :)
Celts and Greece sign MA vs Iroquois :)
Sinop Lib - barracks

2 - 590BC
Workers mainly roading...
Sell Monarchy to Zulu for WM, TM + 63gp (broke)
Sell WM to Aztec for WM & TM
Sell WM to Greece for WM, TM + 2gp (broke)
Sell WM to Persia for WM & TM (broke)
Sell WM to Iroquois for WM & TM (broke)
Sell WM to Babylon for WM, TM + 1gp
Sell WM to Celts for WM & TM
Sell WM to Carthage for WM & TM (broke)
Sell WM to Rome for WM, TM + 1gp (broke)

IBT
Celts demand WM + 40gp - I hand over the money :(
Iroquois start Hanging Garden

3 - 570BC
Iznik hurries Lib for 40gp (would waste 7 of 8 shields otherwise)
Adrianople hurries Horse for 48gp (would waste 6 of 9 shields otherwise)
Hawk WM
Rome, Babylon & Celts have Engineering

IBT
Zulu want MA vs Greece - no thanks
Adrianople Horse - Market
Brusa Barracks - Horse
Iznik Lib - Horse
Konya Barracks - Horse

4 - 550BC
Workers roading...
Uskudar hurries Horse for 36gp (avoiding waste)
Hawk WM
The tech trading possibilites are poor at the moment. Rome, Babylon and the Celts all have Engineering. The only other Civ with any money are the Aztecas with 298gp but they already have Theology. I could buy Engineering for 320gp + 35gpt but I could only sell it to the Aztecs and probably only for the 298gp. I'd rather spend our money on something useful like Chivalry :D

So I'll wait a bit and see what happens. The worst possibility is that the Aztecs buy (or research) Engineering before we decide to trade.

IBT
Rome and Aztecs sign MA vs Egypt :)
Aztecs & Persia sign Peace Treaty
Uskudar Horse - Horse
Akkad (Babylon) completes Hanging Gardens
Aztec switch to Sistine
Antalya hurries Barracks for 32gp (avoid waste)
Hawk WM
Aztecs have spent most of their treasury (down to 10gp)
I buy an Embassy with Babylon for 68gp
Babylon (city) pop 10 (3h, 4c, 1u, 2 clowns), 18spt, -2fpt - building Sistine (14 turns) - Wines, Spices, Silks, Iron & Horse - garrison of 6 Pike

IBT
Antalya Barracks - Horse
Rome starts Sistine
Greece starts Sun Tzu's
Celts start Sistine
Egypt starts Sun Tzu's
Tenochtitlan (Aztec) completes Sun Tzu's

5 - 510BC
Sell RoP to Babylon for WM, TM + 11gp (broke)
Rome has 1010 gp in the bank!
Hawk WM

I've got to go out for a few hours so I'll finish off later this afternoon.


Ted
 
Republic is like beer, Ted--disgusting at first, but almost everyone ends up liking it. :D
 
@Space
No FP yet. Probably Adrianople after Market.

@Northern Pike
I have nothing against Republic. In fact, I would choose Republic over Monarchy in most cases. This time I felt Monarchy to be the better choice (but I could be wrong :))


Ted
 
Ted, speed of construction certainly comes into the FP decision, and it's your call. But I might mention that Iznik occupies a perfect RCP location for the FP, at corruption distance 4.5 from each of three cities, whereas Adrianople is closer to Uskudar than to any other town.
 
Here's the second half. Pretty steady stuff, no excitement whatsoever.

IBT
Persia & Rome sign MA vs Egypt
Greece, Celts, Egypt & Babylon switch to Sistine

6 - 490BC
Workers still roading...
Constantinople hurries Market for 80gp (avoid waste)
Inzik hurries Horse for 36gp (avoid waste)
Buy slave, WM & TM from Rome for WM + 118gp
Hawk WM

IBT
Aztecs & Celts sign MA vs Iroquois
Carthage & Celts sign MA vs Zulu
Constantinople Market - Library (just for culture)
Iznik Horse - Forbidden Palace (thanks Northern Pike :))
Izmit Lib - Market

7 - 470BC
Workers roading and start mining mountains...
Adrianople fires taxman
Constantinople fires taxman
Uskudar hurries Horse for 36gp (avoid waste)
Hawk WM
We overtake Rome & Iroquois on the Histograph

IBT
Sign MA with Carthage vs Egypt get his WM & TM
Persia & Babylon sign Peace Treaty
Uskudar Horse - Market

8 - 450BC
Workers work...
Hawk WM

IBT
Egypt & Aztecs sign Peace Treaty
Greece & Rome sign MA vs Egypt
Brusa Horse - Lib (border culture)
Konya Horse - Pike
Adana Lib - Barracks

9 - 430BC
Workers work...
Constantinople hurries Lib for 64gp (avoid waste)
Hawk WM

IBT
Aztec want RoP and are willing to pay 64gp for it - I agree
Constantinople Lib - Pike
Antalya Horse - Market

10 - 410BC
Workers work...
We buy MA vs Egypt, WM, TM + 10gp from Babylon for WM + 4gpt
We buy MA vs Egypt, WM, TM + 4gpt from Rome for WM + 15gp
We buy WM, TM + slave from Zulu for WM + 119gp
We buy WM, TM + slave from Persia for WM + 119gp
We buy MA vs Egypt, WM, TM + 55gp from Greece for 1gpt
We buy MA vs Egypt, WM, TM + 49gp from Aztecs for 1gpt
Build Embassy with Celts for 45gp
Entremont pop 9 (3h, 1c, 3u, 2 clowns) - 10spt, -1fpt, 26gpt - Sistine due in 1

Notes
Steady plodding play I'm afraid - there doesn't seem to be much chance of a tech deal until someone comes up with Chivalry.
I haven't bothered upgrading any units. Better to appear weak until Chivalry then mass upgrade, most of the core should have Markets by then.
It's still worth watching out for when towns are 2 turns away from completing their production build and then hurrying those that would waste 3 or more shields if allowed to finish naturally.
I've upped the dogpile on Egypt and left the Celts to organise the resistance against the Zulu - seems fair :)
FP is started in Iznik.

Nothing worth taking a screenshot of so the save is
> here < (zipped)

I'm off to pour a :beer:


Ted
 
Earp is UP

Sorry not to be able to give feedback as I am rather busy tonight. I'll download the save and have a look over the weekend if Earp hasn't already played by then.
 
Originally posted by a space oddity
Good SG crew. Three answers already. :)
Click to expand...
Make that just: Good SG crew period :)


Ted
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Greebley
GR19- Genocide AWE vs 30 civs.
3 4 5
Replies
98
Views
8K
Greebley
Greebley
Greebley
GR20 - Genocide AWE vs 30 Civs (try 2)
11 12 13
Replies
255
Views
25K
Rodent
Rodent
Aabraxan
The Clone Wars
6 7 8
Replies
146
Views
21K
Aabraxan
Aabraxan
AlanH
  • Sticky
SGOTM 14 Maintenance Thread
2 3
Replies
52
Views
18K
AlanH
AlanH
Doc Tsiolkovski
DocT Discussion Thread
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
10K
Newbie J
N
Back
Top Bottom