patriotism?

[holy king]

my question, specifically, is, is it a bad thing to be unpatriotic and if so why?

 

[Lillefix]

Absolutely not. Why on earth should feel obliged to support some random country or culture, just because you happened to be born there. The question should be whether or not patriotism is a bad thing.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

It really depends on your definition of patriotism.
I used to equate patriot with idiot because it conjures up images of flag waving fools who'll always defend 'their country' without contributing much to it, but people who'll always critisize their country and don't realize that other nations also fail to live up to their ideals are equally annoying.

 

[Lillefix]

...but people who'll always critisize their country and don't realize that other nations also fail to live up to their ideals are equally annoying.

Then the idiot who praises, with enthusiastic tone,
All centuries but this, and every country but his own;

Yeahhh

 

[Formaldehyde]

I see nothing wrong with feeling patriotic towards your country. I think it is natural. Just about everybody does no matter how bad their country actually is.

I draw the line at excessive nationalism:

Patriotism vs. Nationalism in a Post 9/11 World

George Orwell described patriotism as the "devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force on other people." Conversely, he described nationalism as the feeling that your way of life, country, or ethnic group is superior to others and warned this feeling can lead a group to impose their way of life on others. In simple terms, patriotism is good, but nationalism is dangerous and can lead to war.

If you are proud of the troops defending this country, that is justified patriotism. If you wear red, white and blue pajamas to bed and every night before you go to sleep you yell out your window, "These colors don't run," that is dumb nationalism. Being proud of the lasting effects of the Bill of Rights on the world political landscape -- patriotism; believing a kid from Mexico named Miguel picking strawberries for 35 cents an hour is the reason the taxes on your house just increased -- dumb nationalism. Beaming during the singing of our national anthem -- patriotism; arguing that the act of helping people in need brings us one step closer to socialism -- dumb nationalism. I could go on and on, but I'll end with this example -- If you believe in freedom of religion but don't understand the irony behind your anger at a mosque being built near ground zero, then you are the number one culprit of dumb nationalism in 2011.

The intersection between patriotism and nationalism was at a forefront in the days following 9/11. I loved seeing all the flags flying and the spontaneous patriotic singing on 9/12. It made me proud to be American. Then on 9/13, my good friend, a practitioner of the Sikh faith who wears a turban to express his beliefs, was run off the road in his car and punched in the face without explanation. He wasn't even Muslim, but his dark skin made him a target for ignorance. I've never been more ashamed of my peers. The FBI reported that hate crimes against people of Middle Eastern origin or descent increased from 354 attacks in 2000 to 1,501 attacks in 2001. Not one of those can be justified as patriotism. They were all a product of dumb nationalism.

Several months ago I was talking to a stranger in a bar in Indiana. Our conversation turned to the situation in the Middle East and he postulated, "Muslims are everything that's wrong with the world today." I respectfully disagreed. While I strongly disagree with the conservative practices of Islamic states, we should be angry about fundamentalism not Islam. Fundamentalism is the celebration of extremism and fanaticism. As Winston Churchill said, "a fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."

Unfortunately, fundamentalists exist in every faith, Christianity included. The people of the Westboro Baptist Church may not kill people, but they spread a lot of hate with signs that read things like "Thank God for dead soldiers." If we keep lumping all Muslims together, then we keep practicing dumb nationalism.

According to Encyclopedia Britannica, the American and French Revolutions of the late 18th century spawned the concept of nationalism. Before the American Revolution, there was no concept of "America". We existed as individual colonies and identified ourselves as Virginians, New Yorkers, etc., not as Americans. It wasn't until we were faced with a common enemy in the British that we bandied together and began formulating a national identity. I've experienced similar phenomena when I try to approach a group of girls in a bar only to watch them join forces and expel the common enemy, me. My favorite example of dumb nationalism is the song "Yankee Doodle" whose chorus includes the lyrics "stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni." The British actually wrote that song and sang it to make fun of the colonists during the Revolutionary War. Macaronis were fashionable British men who dressed and spoke in an affected, epicene manner. In the song Yankee Doodle, the British were saying that colonists were so dumb we'd stick a feather in our hat and believe it made us the height of fashion. Instead of being angry, we were filled with so much dumb national pride we said, "That's a catchy tune! Let's teach it to every second grader in America from here on out."

The Yankee Doodle example is hilarious, but too many examples of dumb nationalism are scary and dangerous. America helped found dumb nationalism, now let's rise above it. Let's make our country better -- that's the best memorial we can give to the victims of 9/11 on this anniversary weekend.

 

[holy king]

I think it is natural.

what does this mean?

 

[Glassfan]

I draw the line at excessive nationalism...

...often refered to as jingoism - "extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism; vociferous patriotism" - American Heritage Dictionary.

As a patriotic person, I agree with you.

 

[Formaldehyde]

what does this mean?

Don't most animals exhibit patriotism?

 

[Flying Pig]

Patriotism just means being proud of your country - it's not a 'bad thing' or a 'good thing'; you either are or you aren't. It's like asking if it's a 'bad thing' to be short.

 

[red_elk]

Patriotism just means being proud of your country - it's not a 'bad thing' or a 'good thing'; you either are or you aren't. It's like asking if it's a 'bad thing' to be short.

This.

 

[Save_Ferris]

If you're stuck in a country, you might as well like it. If you don't, change something. Complaining doesn't help, and moving out shows that you aren't willing to help it.

As for me, I love Americans and the American Dream. It's just a shame that our government, on a national scale, doesn't work.

 

[strijder20]

A bad thing to be unpatriotic? To be honest, I've always seen 'patriotic' as an insult rather than a compliment. Probably has to do with the place I live, and by what I see as patriotism.

 

[warpus]

Nah man, what matters is what you do with that patriotic (or anti-patriotic.. or neutral-patriotic) energy.

That's when we'll start judging you and calling you an arse (or a hero)

 

[Mango Elephant]

Almost every type of pride is bad, and a pride about something you were born as is never good, and so patriotism is never good.

If you don't, change something. Complaining doesn't help, and moving out shows that you aren't willing to help it.

Not moving out shows your unwillingness to adapt and to make a better environment. It seems lazy.

I understand the need for good change, but advocate change for humanity as a whole, not for your nation.

 

[madviking]

I'm "patriotic" of various things. My state, my region, my school, my football team, etc.

And like Flying Pig said, it's just a thing.

 

[Traitorfish]

Patriotism means putting loyalty to a fictional entity above loyalty to actual human beings, and is therefore fundamentally objectionable.

 

[Joecoolyo]

I see nothing wrong with feeling patriotic towards your country. I think it is natural. Just about everybody does no matter how bad their country actually is.

I draw the line at excessive nationalism:

Patriotism vs. Nationalism in a Post 9/11 World

...often refered to as jingoism - "extreme nationalism characterized especially by a belligerent foreign policy; chauvinistic patriotism; vociferous patriotism" - American Heritage Dictionary.

As a patriotic person, I agree with you.

These about sum up my opinions. 'cept replace excessive nationalism in Forma's post with jingoism from Glassfan's post.

 

[aronnax]

Patriotism means putting loyalty to a fictional entity above loyalty to actual human beings, and is therefore fundamentally objectionable.

Or perhaps a sense of pride and accomplishment of being part of something that makes up your identity as a human being?

 

[Mango Elephant]

Or perhaps a sense of pride and accomplishment of being part of something that makes up your identity as a human being?

What accomplishment are you talking about? My being born wasn't exactly the most commendable accomplishment. I had nothing to do with my being born in America, it wasn't my choice and it wasn't a product of my conviction, it was an accident of circumstances beyond my control.

I am a part of America, however America is such a big place I'm very miniscule in my importance. My being part of America is a result of me living here. It's not difficult to live. I shouldn't feel pride at doing something that's not difficult; it's like Ali being prideful about punching a six-year-old and knocking the child out. It's unwarranted.

I have blue eyes. That's part of my identity. Should I be prideful of that too?

 

[Berzerker]

subjective, hypocritical bs

uberpatriots aint lovin obama, but they're quiet when george bush ruins the country