Roe vs Wade overturned

[Farm Boy]

Actual people.

Yeah, empathy doesn't belong in this space.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

So fetuses are "actual people" and women and teenagers are not?

 

[Lexicus]

So fetuses are "actual people" and women and teenagers are not?

Neither are 10 year old girls

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Neither are 10 year old girls

Yeah, I should have included that age group.

 

[racha]

So fetuses are "actual people" and women and teenagers are not?

"The Other" aren't people. Except when pretzel logic temporarily makes some values of The Other the good kind because it's expedient.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Actual people.

Yeah, empathy doesn't belong in this space0.

You're right that empathy is probably irrelevant here. Obviously none of us have ever been aborted, and I'd wager very few of us, if any, have ever undergone an abortion procedure. So the rest is just trash talk. There's no possibility of empathy. Sympathy maybe, but I guess that depends on who you want to sympathize with. Even sympathy can be bolstered by some sort of similar or related, albeit not identical experience. In that vein, its pretty hard to sympathize with a fetus, what's the baseline?

Now... with a woman wanting/needing an abortion... maybe there's some better... closer... whatever? Anybody here know what it's like to not want a baby but think/know you might have one pretty soon?

 

[Farm Boy]

Seems like we should pass a law or something.

Sanctioned killing being an appropriate realm that.

 

[Sommerswerd]

We already have those laws...

plus war... which where... I guess "sanctioned" and "appropriate" get an even more super special "realm" for killing...

So it always boils down to who is making the laws, and who is doing the dying...

 

[El_Machinae]

I think there will be a third category of empathy, those who've taken in unwanted babies ('unwanted' being a very harsh word there). It's impossible to not tie those two concepts together if you value a fetus.

 

[Farm Boy]

Well, if we're bent about the 64, like you said, we have guns and cars and livestock and any number of things, we could have a national law regarding loss of maternal life and abortion. Seems like it'd be overwhelmingly popular enough to pass.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Life has happiness built in, but few happy endings whenever those endings happen. Abortion is is not a happy ending; it is perhaps a change in life's direction. Forced birth is not a happy ending; it is just someone's beginning that does not come with any guarantees. The question at hand is "Who get to choose?" A woman, a family, a government, a political party, a religion?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Anybody here know what it's like to not want a baby but think/know you might have one pretty soon?

I know what it's like to be younger than 25 and make a decision that I would never have children, and if something happened that resulted in pregnancy, I would opt for abortion.

I've discussed this before, years ago. Medical issues, generations of women on my mother's side of the family getting cancer, and most of them dying from it - including my mother and one of my aunts and maybe the only blood-related cousin I ever had (never got to meet her, so I have no idea if she survived or died).

Given this, given that you can't (legally) choose the baby's sex, I'd be an idiot to risk pregnancy. I made the decision that even if I end up as yet another family statistic, there would be no more generations of it from my branch of the family.

It wasn't an easy decision, as it also meant an end to my dad and grandfather's line. Neither my dad nor I had siblings. But I think it was the correct decision.

 

[Samson]

More about data leakage from IT systems. I am a little surprised that they found 7 that did not leak

Mozilla finds 18 of 25 popular reproductive health apps leak data

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It's official: your period and/or pregnancy tracker will probably share your data with law enforcement. And they might even do it on purpose.​

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Eighteen of 25 reproductive health apps and wearable devices reviewed by Mozilla received a *Privacy Not Included warning label – meaning they have problems when it comes to protecting users' privacy and security.​

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This is especially worrisome in the post-Roe United States, where this data could be used by cops (or private bounty hunters seeking $10,000 bounties) to arrest women seeking abortion information or services in states where the procedure is now outlawed, according Jen Caltrider, Mozilla's lead researcher.​

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For its latest *Privacy Not Included guide – it has compiled several of these to help consumers shop for relatively safe and less creepy products and apps that connect to the internet – Mozilla's researchers chose ten popular period tracking apps, ten pregnancy tracking apps, and five health and fitness wearable devices that track fertility.​

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Eight of the period trackers reviewed – Period Tracker, Clue, Flo, My Calendar Period Tracker, Glow and Eve by Glow, Maya, Ovia Fertility and Period Calendar Period Tracker – earned a *Privacy Not Included warning label. The two that didn't are Natural Cycles and Euki, the latter of which was the only app that earned a place in Mozilla's "Best Of" category.​

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Euki doesn't collect any personal information about users, and all of the data it asks users to enter about their reproductive health and sexual history is stored locally on the device. Also, if someone that you don't want to see your reproductive health data (say, a cop or an abusive partner) asks you to open Euki, entering "0000" when you open the app will show false information.​

​

Natural Cycles, a Swedish-based birth control app, did not receive the privacy warning label. Caltrider said when she reached out to the company, its reps indicated that the question of what they will share with law enforcement is something they've been struggling with. Their solution is to completely anonymize all user data so they can't share any of it with the cops.​

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Meanwhile, all ten of the pregnancy trackers' policies garnered warning labels – Babycenter, What to Expect, The Bump Pregnancy Tracker and Baby app, Pregnancy+, Ovia Pregnancy, PregLife Pregnancy, WebMD Pregnancy, Glow Nurture and Glow Baby, Pregnancy and Due Date Tracker, and Sprout.​

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Personal information collected includes phone numbers, emails, postal addresses, gender, device IDs, advertizing IDs, and IP addresses, menstrual cycle length, date of last menstrual period, sexual activity, pregnancy due dates, doctors' appointments, and pregnancy symptoms.​

 

[TheMeInTeam]

we give up a lot, to use modern phones.

even if you had 100% perfect avoidance of apps, you'd have to also disable gps tracker or maybe even yank battery. otherwise it would still be possible to track that someone went to a clinic.

similarly, algorithms are pretty powerful now, they often predict pregnancy correctly based on things searched/looked for etc. they detect and predict a lot of other things, too. scary stuff no matter how you slice it.

 

[uppi]

we give up a lot, to use modern phones.

even if you had 100% perfect avoidance of apps, you'd have to also disable gps tracker or maybe even yank battery. otherwise it would still be possible to track that someone went to a clinic.

similarly, algorithms are pretty powerful now, they often predict pregnancy correctly based on things searched/looked for etc. they detect and predict a lot of other things, too. scary stuff no matter how you slice it.

Flight mode should suffice, but yeah, disabling the GPS makes just makes it a bit harder to track you.

I don't think an algorithm would be enough to convict. At least, I hope that it will never come to that (for anything) .

 

[Farm Boy]

More about data leakage from IT systems. I am a little surprised that they found 7 that did not leak

There is always work to be done.

 

[Arakhor]

Because lately it's always Florida, a Florida court has held that a pregnant and parentless 16-year-old is not mature enough to have an abortion – but is, apparently, mature enough to raise a child after being forced into childbirth by the state. Who knew that the rare Schrödinger's Maturity has finally been spotted in the wild?

 

[Farm Boy]

States are frequently quite insistant about their resources being superior at raising children than their biological parents. Particularly absentee fathers. But not exclusively.

 

[JollyRoger]

I'm sure at birth, the newborn is Floriduh will be deemed sufficiently mature enough to pull itself up by its bootiestraps and not need any resources from the state.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Flight mode should suffice, but yeah, disabling the GPS makes just makes it a bit harder to track you.

I don't think an algorithm would be enough to convict. At least, I hope that it will never come to that (for anything) .

not by itself, but it makes me picture awful setup like using that to identify people to look more closely (algorithmically), then start using their tax records, bank information/payment processing, etc casting a wide net to secure more evidence based on "probable cause", and that this could be extended far beyond abortions. sobering thought.

Because lately it's always Florida, a Florida court has held that a pregnant and parentless 16-year-old is not mature enough to have an abortion

can't defend florida on this one, or "parental consent" laws in general. the only "parental consent" relevant to abortion should be the parents of the fetus, particularly the mother, because of who is impacted by the choices.

this is a specific example of why internally inconsistent/incoherent policy is bad, by the way. it results in inane bullcrap outcomes. she is being treated like a "schrodinger's adult", where it counts for her legal obligations but not her medical autonomy related to said autonomy. decision rights misaligned with the people impacted. there is no consistent policy that allows law or court to uphold this fact pattern.