Roe vs Wade overturned

[El_Machinae]

Not that it wasn't always reactionary indeed, what can one expect from people with life-long sinecures but that they be form the upper class, for the upper class?

I am not so much trying to assign blame for the result (mainly because I think that my voice won't add much to a thread where enough people have informed opinions), I'm trying to think of simple sentences that's aren't a rehash of other things we're saying. I don't believe that a multitude of good reasons dilute an argument, though our psychology sometimes lets that happen.

Another thing for the memespace (and it's a rehash, but not yet in this thread) is that "open legs" aren't what create pregnancies, it's ejaculations that do. I find it so weird that (afaict) every single community has incentive for good sexual education, but 'keep your legs together' is the too common advice.

Spoiler meme-shaped summary :

Learn To Ejaculate Safely

Blame a man every time an unwanted pregnancy comes up. Every chance you get. Normalize that women don't really need men to ejaculate unsafely to enjoy sex.

 

[Lexicus]

The think that should be noticed here is that the advocates of abortion rights had 50 years to put them into the law of the land, instead of relying on a court. And didn't. Taking shortcuts is a bad idea. But this was worse, it was past negligence - it's evidence that a majority of the people who had political seats and claimed they were very concerned about abortion rights didn't ever act seriously. They just talked the talk.

Yeah it's not like we have a Constitution that gives absurd levels of veto power over any national legislative act to a small minority of the population or anything

 

[caketastydelish]

technically not what's argued here, but https://www.npr.org/2018/07/03/6201...h-control-intrinsically-wrong?t=1656118286966

catholic church has historically had a harsh stance against contraceptives. so no not murder i guess but against the good design of god, against life itself as it should be

edit: for the record, i'm not arguing that contraceptives are threatened legally atm. it's just that the strand against them, however small, is there

most republicans/conservatives are not catholic and many actively resent them. A lot of actual Catholics are Hispanic who vote democrat. Elected officials of the democratic party will not support banning contraceptives just because of hispanics. And many Catholics, regardless of race are hypocritical.

 

[Berzerker]

The 9th Amendment protects abortion

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

so does the 4th

The right of the people to be secure in their persons

and the 5th

nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law

 

[Angst]

most republicans/conservatives are not catholic and many actively resent them. A lot of actual Catholics are Hispanic who vote democrat. Elected officials of the democratic party will not support banning contraceptives just because of hispanics. And many Catholics, regardless of race are hypocritical.

like i want to be clear: the point is just that some people believe contraception is evil. i was pointing out a technicality, with the caveat that it's not really relevant ^^ you said you never heard that anyone thought contraception was murder; i just wanted to point out that while not murder and while not relevant, people that decry contraception as devil's work exist

like, the minority of people that believe this are not going to move anything politically in the states. they exist, but that's it

 

[Estebonrober]

US absolute lack of moderate representation in government strikes again.

ugh, moderate representation is the corporate dems, hell I'd call the right wing. this what full fundamentalist christian minority rule looks like. It will get worse.

 

[Estebonrober]

I don't know this for a fact, but my assumption is there aren't as many (ordinary) people against contraceptives as there are against abortion. I live in a conservative part of Texas and even around here hardly anyone wants to ban contraceptives. At least to the best of my knowledge. If banning contraceptives is not popular even amongst Republicans then I doubt it's going anywhere.

this is jsut delusional, the fact that you do not understand that is a major part of our problem
Moderator Action: Warned for flaming. The_J

 

[caketastydelish]

If that is the case then elaborate on why what I said is delusional.

 

[Estebonrober]

If that is the case then elaborate on why what I said is delusional.

for fifty years these people have demonstrated that will always go that next step to take us further down a Christian fundamentalist nightmare mixed with corporate fascism but still you cling to the idea that "oh no they wouldn't go that far because of how unpopular it is"

Can you tell me when was the last time the GOP passed anything popular? It would be nice that the something would be something they did not overtly lie about upon hindsight.

 

[Kyriakos]

Interesting (and bleak). Of course a court ruling isn't a law, so relying on a court ruling as if it was law was delusional all along. It now got cancelled by another court ruling, and the US will face very serious problems with abortion in states that go on to ban even early abortion.
One wonders why no steps were ever taken to actually legislate the right to abortion (as it exists in euro countries) and instead treat one supreme court law ruling as enough to safeguard anything. If the reason behind no such attempt to legislate into law is that actual popular vote (in states) could not support it, then it is even worse.

 

[El_Machinae]

It's not so much 'banning contraception' (like, not on store shelves), it's 'reducing access where more access makes a lot of sense'.
So, not only edge cases where health insurance has to include contraceptive benefits, but also things like sex ed in schools and a school nurse whose goal is to get contraceptive where they're needed in time.

There's a cohort that believes that contraception encourages immoral sex, so reducing access to contraception will 'help'. Or, they don't want to 'subsidize immorality', sometimes. It's an ongoing battle, some of it is noise and some costs a lot of political capital. But some of it is pretty important. I was raised in a community that insisted on the 'right' to not teach sex ed to kids, for example. Those are the things at risk.

 

[Estebonrober]

Interesting (and bleak). Of course a court ruling isn't a law, so relying on a court ruling as if it was law was delusional all along. It now got cancelled by another court ruling, and the US will face very serious problems with abortion in states that go on to ban even early abortion.
One wonders why no steps were ever taken to actually legislate the right to abortion (as it exists in euro countries) and instead treat one supreme court law ruling as enough to safeguard anything. If the reason behind no such attempt to legislate into law is that actual popular vote (in states) could not support it, then it is even worse.

this is because we've had a fundamentally broken government for basically my entire life.

 

[RobAnybody]

This isn't new: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_overruled_United_States_Supreme_Court_decisions

In fact Planned Parenthood v Casey, Obergefell, Lawrence v Texas, and the one everyone's heard of Brown v Board of Education have all overturned existing precedent. For better or for worse, it works both ways.

While that's true, I don't believe SCOTUS has ever overturned precedent that granted a right in order to take away that same right.

 

[caketastydelish]

for fifty years these people have demonstrated that will always go that next step to take us further down a Christian fundamentalist nightmare mixed with corporate fascism but still you cling to the idea that "oh no they wouldn't go that far because of how unpopular it is"

Can you tell me when was the last time the GOP passed anything popular? It would be nice that the something would be something they did not overtly lie about upon hindsight.

Even most Christians don't want contraceptives banned. And contraceptives also have big money/corporate backing - the pharmaceutical industry. They lobby.

 

[Berzerker]

guns are in the Constitution, abortion is not - popular GOP sentiment

babies aren't in the Constitution either, can the govt make women have abortions?

I dont see marriage mentioned, in reality there are just a handful of rights, hence the 9th Amendment

neither party gives a damn about the Constitution... and thats fine, no constitution can require anyone to act and I certainly have no moral obligation or authority to enforce it. I'm just tired of the bs

 

[choxorn]

Forcing people to raise unwanted babies is a horrible thing.

These twats think they're doing a good thing banning abortion but where will they be when struggling parents need help??

"Pro-life conservatives are obsessed with the fetus from conception to 9 months. After that, they don't wanna know about you. They don't wanna hear from you. No nothing! No neo-natal care, no day care, no head start, no school lunch, no food stamps, no welfare, no nothing! If you're pre-born, you're fine; if you're pre-school, you're <screwed>. Conservatives don't give a <crap> about you until you reach military age. Then they think you're just fine, just what they're looking for. Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers." - George Carlin

 

[Kaitzilla]

for fifty years these people have demonstrated that will always go that next step to take us further down a Christian fundamentalist nightmare mixed with corporate fascism but still you cling to the idea that "oh no they wouldn't go that far because of how unpopular it is"

Can you tell me when was the last time the GOP passed anything popular? It would be nice that the something would be something they did not overtly lie about upon hindsight.

Mike Pence and the organization he founded 14 months ago has the next step.

A push to get abortion outlawed in all 50 states.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

LE = law enforcement. And yes, I'm talking about apps you can download that will track your cycle for you. That data is stored and can be obtained by the state if they, say, wanted to prove that you were pregnant and then mysteriously stopped being pregnant after your maps app showed you drove to California, and your google search history showed you looking up states where abortion is still legal, and then abortion clinics in California.

The point isn't any particular app per se. The point is that we live in a world where enough data to fill dozens of libraries exists for all of us, that much of that data is sold on the open market, and is easily obtainable by the government either by subpoena or simply by asking the company in question to hand it over. The state doesn't have to have checkpoints at the border to penalize circumventing these laws. They merely need one person to notify them of where to direct their gaze, and then the mounds and mounds of data that are extracted from us every second of the day do the rest.

This assumes that each woman actually uses an app to keep track, instead of a normal paper calendar and pen. It also assumes that each woman has a regular cycle.

 

[caketastydelish]

Some states will try to ban crossing state lines or transporting a woman across state lines for such a procedure, I'm sure. Universal carry to term.

Honest question: how can they enforce this?

 

[Farm Boy]

it's just that the strand against them, however small, is there

It seems to register as a complaint when nuns or employers are being forced to buy them relatively directly rather than through say, general taxation.

Though, I do have to wonder what the commitment towards making contraceptives available actually is if the purchase of them gets offloaded onto employers.