Roe vs Wade overturned

[João III]

These statutes also deprive the Lovings of liberty without due process of law in violation of the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.
  Marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," fundamental to our very existence and survival. To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law.

— Loving, 388 U.S. at 12

I imagine Thomas would rather focus on the equal protection clause, although I'm not sure how he'd plan to get around that then for Obergefell

 

[Rg339]

Politically, the Dems gain motivated single-issue voters, and the Republicans lose motivated single issue voters. Energy level is gonna shift now. Might matter, margin of victory in competitive states is frequently less than 2%.

 

[The_J]

Moderator Action: I've moved posts from 3 separate threads into this new one, since I thin kthis is worth its own thread. Please let me know (via the reporting function) if anything is mis-placed.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

SCOTUS said mid 19th century gun restrictions were too new and too far removed from the signing of the Constitution to be accepted as the historical record in the gun control case this week. However, abortion was mostly entirely legal in the early days of the US, and wasn’t restricted by laws until the late 19th century, laws that SCOTUS just cited as not too new and as establishing historical record for overturning roe v wade. No attempt whatsoever to couch this in anything but sheer power.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Some states will try to ban crossing state lines or transporting a woman across state lines for such a procedure, I'm sure. Universal carry to term.

So how would they do that - have agents at every state border crossing, checking for pregnant women?

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

It’s too early to say that, Republicans in Texas paid no penalty in the last few years for their restrictions. Plus the GOP is pulling away huge numbers of Hispanic voters from the Dems and that demographic does not rate abortion access as highly as other dem constituents.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

So how would they do that - have agents at every state border crossing, checking for pregnant women?

They will probably use medical records to try. Any sudden disappearance in a recorded pregnancy will garner intense scrutiny and harassment. It’s going to cause tons of women to not seek any prenatal care.

 

[innonimatu]

I don't know if it's memetically useful, but we're talking precedents created by highly bipartisan judges being overturned by judges whose seating is definitely controversial. So, this side-track is less about 'fairness' but more about how winner-take-all-divisive this change is. A lot of people are happy to win at any cost, but there will be others who have many different angles into what bothers them.

So a political court changes opinions according to its political makeup. Not that it wasn't always reactionary indeed, what can one expect from people with life-long sinecures but that they be form the upper class, for the upper class?

The think that should be noticed here is that the advocates of abortion rights had 50 years to put them into the law of the land, instead of relying on a court. And didn't. Taking shortcuts is a bad idea. But this was worse, it was past negligence - it's evidence that a majority of the people who had political seats and claimed they were very concerned about abortion rights didn't ever act seriously. They just talked the talk.

 

[Arakhor]

This quote is really quite insightful:

"The unborn" are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don't resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don't ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don't need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don't bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It's almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.
Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.

— Pastor Dave Barnhart, St. Junia Methodist Church

 

[amadeus]

I’ve not read the rest of the thread but I’m not going to let my ignorance stop me from voicing my opinion!

I’m putting the blame more on Congress for its can-kicking rather than codifying it in law.

In this case I’d say to the GOP the old adage of “be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.”

 

[sophie]

So how would they do that - have agents at every state border crossing, checking for pregnant women?

LE agency tipped by an untrustworthy confidante (who claims a tip bounty) -> LE recover tracking/location data from phone or car (and/or a cycle tracking app)

Or as GEFMe said. Texas's bill has mandatory reporting (on penalty massive fine) for any hospital with a pregnant patient who recently reported a miscarriage.

 

[stinkubus]

Is there any concrete movement (within the supreme court itself, not the general population) to get contraceptives banned?

In his concurrent opinion, Justice Thomas explicitly stated that the rulings which invalidated sodomy laws, legalized gay marriage, and enshrined access to contraception as a right should now be considered suspect.

 

[Rg339]

It’s too early to say that, Republicans in Texas paid no penalty in the last few years for their restrictions. Plus the GOP is pulling away huge numbers of Hispanic voters from the Dems and that demographic does not rate abortion access as highly as other dem constituents.

We shall see. It seems to me though that many of the people you describe here:

They will probably use medical records to try. Any sudden disappearance in a recorded pregnancy will garner intense scrutiny and harassment. It’s going to cause tons of women to not seek any prenatal care.

are likely to become the motivated, single-issue voters I wrote of, though.

 

[Arakhor]

In his concurrent opinion, Justice Thomas explicitly stated that the rulings which invalidated sodomy laws, legalized gay marriage, and enshrined access to contraception as a right should now be considered suspect.

Yes, but he's a reactionary old fossil. Do you really see Roberts wanting to support those increasingly more extreme ideas?

 

[Narz]

Forcing people to raise unwanted babies is a horrible thing.

These twats think they're doing a good thing banning abortion but where will they be when struggling parents need help??

 

[Valka D'Ur]

LE agency tipped by an untrustworthy confidante (who claims a tip bounty) -> LE recover tracking/location data from phone or car (and/or a cycle tracking app)

LE?

I assume a "cycle tracking app" keeps track of menstrual cycles? How is that supposed to work if someone opts not to use them?

In fact, how is any of this supposed to work for women who have irregular periods or no periods due to a whole slew of medical issues that result in their systems basically going haywire?

 

[Arakhor]

Forcing people to raise unwanted babies is a horrible thing.

These twats think they're doing a good thing banning abortion but where will they be when struggling parents need help??

Presumably telling them to take responsibility for themselves and/or drag themselves up by their bootstraps.

 

[sophie]

LE?

I assume a "cycle tracking app" keeps track of menstrual cycles? How is that supposed to work if someone opts not to use them?

In fact, how is any of this supposed to work for women who have irregular periods or no periods due to a whole slew of medical issues that result in their systems basically going haywire?

LE = law enforcement. And yes, I'm talking about apps you can download that will track your cycle for you. That data is stored and can be obtained by the state if they, say, wanted to prove that you were pregnant and then mysteriously stopped being pregnant after your maps app showed you drove to California, and your google search history showed you looking up states where abortion is still legal, and then abortion clinics in California.

The point isn't any particular app per se. The point is that we live in a world where enough data to fill dozens of libraries exists for all of us, that much of that data is sold on the open market, and is easily obtainable by the government either by subpoena or simply by asking the company in question to hand it over. The state doesn't have to have checkpoints at the border to penalize circumventing these laws. They merely need one person to notify them of where to direct their gaze, and then the mounds and mounds of data that are extracted from us every second of the day do the rest.

 

[IglooDame]

In his concurrent opinion, Justice Thomas explicitly stated that the rulings which invalidated sodomy laws, legalized gay marriage, and enshrined access to contraception as a right should now be considered suspect.

Concurrent opinion, though. We know Thomas is willing to take a shredder to civil rights across the board. I have only skimmed elsewhere, but while Alito's majority opinion says stare decisis is not absolute, I've not seen where he (or the Trump Trio) are laying groundwork to target sodomy, gay marriage or contraception, and we know Roberts doesn't have the stomach for it.

And to the contraception question, 38% of Americans in a recent poll said abortion was morally wrong. 5% said contraception is morally wrong, in the same poll. I think pills and rubbers are pretty much good to go nowadays, even in the likes of Texas, regardless of SCOTUS decisions.

 

[Angst]

I've never heard anyone seriously argue "contraceptives is murder".

technically not what's argued here, but https://www.npr.org/2018/07/03/6201...h-control-intrinsically-wrong?t=1656118286966

catholic church has historically had a harsh stance against contraceptives. so no not murder i guess but against the good design of god, against life itself as it should be

edit: for the record, i'm not arguing that contraceptives are threatened legally atm. it's just that the strand against them, however small, is there