Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Silurian, May 20, 2019.
Perhaps you could consider that it's not a place of ignorance in the first place. In future interactions I would appreciate that.
The article is missing half of the story. All these electronics require certain minerals a huge portion of which are sourced from Africa often through violence and exploitation. Huawei's infrastructure activities need to be seen through that lens. The West is exploitative as well but less directly so (because they hire the Chinese to be exploitative) and there are some consumer and political pushback to the point where prestige brands like Apple and Intel go through some level of rigor to evaluate the full supply chain sourcing.
Still, in Africa, access to internet, particularly through mobile services, is of great importance and needs to be supported, my hope is that this can come through more responsible actors than the Chinese government. However in absence of global leaders willing to take this on I cannot fault African governments for working with the Chinese and I think it's important we recognize the effect disruptions like this have on the ability of people in the developing world to access to basic information technology.
There are so many satellite internet constellations getting thrown into space right now that it won't be very long before developing nations will continue to be able to leap frog over the traditional build-out of internet infrastructure much as they have already started to with the deployment of cellular internet and phone calls over traditional landlines, PCs and ISPs.
You are so pro-free market and libertarian!
What do you do. Huawei is in cahoots with the Chinese government. Apple uses sweatshop labour and Samsung is tied up with the Korean government and is basically corrupt.
What's an Internet edge lord to do.
There is a lot of hype about LEO satellite constellations being "the future". There is also a lot of hype about 5G networks. Funny thing is that it does not make sense for both to prove true. I think neither will.
You don't think 5G networks are going to take off? There definitely is legitimate issues with satellite internet constellations as envisioned by Musk, Bezos and others but 5G is all but inevitable.
Honnestly I don't see any real difference between getting spied by the NSA which benefits of an open access to all data from Google, Apple, Microsoft, Facebook or Amazon, and getting spied by the Chinese government through Huawei.
Yes, I don't trust the clearly authoritarian Chinese regime, but I'm not really sure I trust more the US regime totally dominated by US corporations interests. As a European I believe I'm in the losing side no matter what. I feel a strong doubt that European interests are still as much tied with those of the US as most people in my neighbouring countries believe it is, but that's how things are and I can't change anything about it.
To sum it up: Europeans are screwed no matter what.
Sure, it's inevitable, because we're not going to be using/maintaining 4G networks indefinitely, but most of the hype is only that.
Wait, why the hell is the ‘race to 5G’ even a race?
This is neither accurate nor possible.
Maaybe, and only maybe, but presenting the US government as being equal in evil to the Chinese one is a false equivalence.
Chinese government and their debt trap is what is worrying. I remember the EU refusing to fund some highway construction project because it was economically unfeasible with no chance of the government would be capable of paying back the loan, and roadway wouldnt provide that much benefit to grow the economy. But the Chinese stepped in to provide the funds without doing any of the careful studying that the EU did. Some of it seems to be Chinese government directives even though it was a money losing like that tech park in Vietnam which remains mostly empty and is designed to show off Chinese manufacturing, construction and wealth. Other loans seem to have no upsides.
On the other hand the Chinese have been basically following in the footsteps of the US and other powers. The exploitation of poorer weaker countries is a well trod path.
It's borne of there being no bad news allowed in/from China. If you don't look too hard, you can pretend the harmony is mostly free. The US, on the other hand, is perpetually loud and annoying. Good lord, you should try living with them*.
*Like mostly seriously, you'd improve the company.
It's not that hard to find out about the recurrent and ever more massive protests in Hong Kong agains the slow-motion betrayal by the PRC of each and every of its promises.
Or the Uyghurs. Or Tibet. Or their backing corrupt regimes in Africa and exploiting and devastating the local ecosystems.
But that's just me.
It is. The NSA has free access to all data from major US corporations in the name of "national security" and this even for foreigners who have never set a foot in the US. Furthermore, the 5 Anglo countries share the Echelon global surveillance program in being able to intercept any data, both private and public on every major information roads at global scale.
Sorry but I have absolutely no trust in the US government which tends to put US corporations interests first. There are multiple examples of this such as the NSA spying Airbus for Boeing. This is not paranoid, there are proven cases. Another example is about the NSA listening to Angela Merkel's private conversations.
They don't have free access, and they're pretty busy with terrorists as well as Chinese and Russian hackers.
Sure I'm aware of the hype and frankly BS with the marketing around 5G. I just do not understand the POV that 5G won't be deployed.
Ehhhhhhh not really with Trump in charge.
They don't. They have access pursuant to court orders to some data, much of which is encrypted and where "access to" is fairly irrelevant.
There's also various data that they could probably have de jure access to, but actually using access would burn US corporations to the point of them being unusable for the majority of the world, so that data is de facto not accessible.
The difference in evilness is mostly a result of how they treat their own citizens. If you look at what these governments have done outside of their borders, the record of the US government is much worse.
To be fair though this is only because the US has been a lot more powerful and thus has far more scope for its actions outside its own borders.
Separate names with a comma.