[RD] Surrender Summit

[adcarrymaokai]

Immigration is a non-issue?

Not really. I mean, this country is built by immigrants... and slaves (but mostly slaves).

 

[Dachs]

I think you may be underestimating Kremlin here. Just compare it to takeover of Crimea which was practica flawless.

This is flawed even without getting into whether the takeover of Crimea was "practica [sic] flawless".

The same organization is capable of doing different things with different levels of competency. The Wehrmacht did some pretty clever things in the Second World War, like the 1940 campaign in the west, and some pretty brainless things, like the entire war in Italy from 1943 onward. The US security organs in the 1960s were capable simultaneously of organizing the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion and the at least moderately successful campaign to help Colonel Mobutu seize control of Congo-Kinshasa.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

This is flawed even without getting into whether the takeover of Crimea was "practica [sic] flawless".

The same organization is capable of doing different things with different levels of competency. The Wehrmacht did some pretty clever things in the Second World War, like the 1940 campaign in the west, and some pretty brainless things, like the entire war in Italy from 1943 onward. The US security organs in the 1960s were capable simultaneously of organizing the disastrous Bay of Pigs invasion and the at least moderately successful campaign to help Colonel Mobutu seize control of Congo-Kinshasa.

I dont disagree. But my reading is that the reason why any involvement by Russia in the US election is rather silly insignificant overestimeted thing is becouse I think Russians are well aware (suprise) that the American governing process is too complex and itsnt by no means a one man show. If I am to make a wild guess than it would be that Russias only priority is to keep parity or superiority in nuclear race. If the Potus is friendly great if not the ICBMs will take care of most of the problem. Russians can do excelent job like in Crimea and are likely capable of the same in case of cyber attacks or perhaps even massive involvement in US election but thats not this case simply becouse its too resource expensive and likely not even a priority.

 

[Cutlass]

This is only a problem if you operate on the assumption democracy is always "good". I don't operate on that assumption anymore since we have seen in recent decades that democracies are not only terribly inefficient at governing (especially in a crisis), but they are prone to corruption that tends to go unpunished since the people operate under the assumption that everything is being done according to their will.

So your solution is just to put the most corrupt and inefficient in charge permanently?

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

So your solution is just to put the most corrupt and inefficient in charge permanently?

This isnt necesserily the case but every system has to be revived through some process if itsnt continuously adapted to at least most efficient approximation of itself.
One more thought: Sure there is massive corruption of people on the top grabing power in the democratic system but what about the corruption of the masses? Its at least in part becouse of the majority is confortable and doesnt actively participate in democratic process that its possible to happen.
Democracy is slowly dying out and quite naturaly more authoritative/authocratic tendencies are coming in. We can either hope to revive democracy or we will have to undergo some recoil to more centred authority and loose some freedoms in process.

 

[Mechanicalsalvation]

There is absolutely no doubt that Russia interfered with US elections, but the extent to which it did remains unknown. I have read some conspiracy theories in American media which stipulated that Trump's visit to Russia in the early 90's (or late 80's, don't remember) was basically the first step in planning a large-scale overthrow of US democracy, and the next almost 30 years Russia was just waiting for the right opportunity to strike. As wild as it is, at this point in history I wouldn't rule this out as a possibility, though a very very wild one.

No comment.

Please, give me another world to live in.

You are looking at it in wrong way. We live in one of the most exciting times in history. I have practically stopped watching movies since the reality is quite easily on par with most fantastic stories but offers an immediate practical results and knowledge.

 

[Berzerker]

Not really. I mean, this country is built by immigrants... and slaves (but mostly slaves).

Slavery was banned in the north...and the north was the source of the USA's industrial might

 

[Kyriakos]

Your friend is cuter.

She is; though you haven't seen her (haven't posted a pic of her ever)

 

[Farm Boy]

Looks aint everything?

Let's just pretend I didn't confuse two photos of the same person.

 

[Hygro]

This is only a problem if you operate on the assumption democracy is always "good". I don't operate on that assumption anymore since we have seen in recent decades that democracies are not only terribly inefficient at governing (especially in a crisis), but they are prone to corruption that tends to go unpunished since the people operate under the assumption that everything is being done according to their will.

California is a diverse largely direct democracy and we kick butt.

Most liberals who can't stomach my anticapitalism want to pretend the problem is coterminous with Trump, and that the substance of the problem is that Trump is a Russian agent.

By the Reagan years it was obvious something was up and by Bush II we knew the Republican Party was operating, uh, let's say, suspiciously. This current adminstration is an exaggerated form of the Bush years which itself was an exaggerated form of the Reagan years. Whatever it is that they is, they is growing their is.

 

[Berzerker]

My God Republicans should be sued for malpractice. Nixon with Vietnam and Watergate, Reagan and Iran Contra, Bush 1 with Iraq and sanctions, Bush 2 with 9/11 and Iraq again followed by the Manchurian Candidate

and they're Christians and patriots blech

 

[Lexicus]

Slavery was banned in the north...and the north was the source of the USA's industrial might

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/01/0131_030203_jubilee2_2.html

 

[Hehehe]

Not really. I mean, this country is built by immigrants... and slaves (but mostly slaves).

Why is it that the US became much more wealthy than other countries in the Americas which had more slaves than the US?

 

[Lexicus]

http://www.philly.com/philly/column...ner-whistleblower-american-hero-20180724.html

Looks like a whistleblower who warned the public about Russian hacking of election systems is in jail now. Kind of surprised this story hasn't gained more traction.

 

[metalhead]

She actually belongs in jail, because she passed a highly classified document to The Intercept, which promptly burned her as its source.

The story there is mainly that Glenn Greenwald is a piece of crap.

 

[Lexicus]

She actually belongs in jail, because she passed a highly classified document to The Intercept, which promptly burned her as its source.

The story there is mainly that Glenn Greenwald is a piece of crap.

I don't understand why any of this should mean she belongs in jail. And it seems like the story there is mainly that the US government is obsessed with secrecy and at war with whistleblowers.

 

[Broken_Erika]

I don't understand why any of this should mean she belongs in jail. And it seems like the story there is mainly that the US government is obsessed with secrecy and at war with whistleblowers.

You know the saying; Snitches get Stitches.

 

[metalhead]

I don't understand why any of this should mean she belongs in jail. And it seems like the story there is mainly that the US government is obsessed with secrecy and at war with whistleblowers.

The injustice here was perpetrated by Glenn Greenwald for burning his source.

Whistleblowers who go outside of official channels know they are breaking the law. They rely on the media outlets they leak to to keep their identities hidden and gatekeep information. Those media outlets take great care with the information itself as well, to make sure that what they publish is not going to cause harm.

Yes, the government massively over-classifies, but classifying material protects lives and confidential sources and intelligence methods. If an individual is going to go outside of the classification system to blow the whistle, it is critical they choose an appropriate outlet. She did not. I don't have a problem with what she did, so much as the carelessness with which she did it.

 

[Lexicus]

The injustice here was perpetrated by Glenn Greenwald for burning his source.

Having read the description of the government's proceedings against Winner I can confidently say that this is a very, very idiotic take on the situation.

 

[metalhead]

Nope. You were wondering why this story ended up buried. It got buried because Greenwald intended it to be buried. He burned his source for exactly that reason.

Had she leaked to the Post, she would have had her identity protected, and the story would have likely had a far greater impact. Instead she allowed both herself and what she leaked to be immediately discredited and/or ignored.

I know you understand there are legitimate reasons to deter people from leaking classified information on their own accord. One can recognize the importance of what she did while also realizing the necessity of her being prosecuted for it.