[RD] Surrender Summit

The connection is MechSalv, and the intent is to derail the thread into a whataboutism conspiracy discussion of one of his many alternate history beliefs. I'm sorry I started to take the bait, and suggest that you spit out the hook as well. Just consider the source.

Oh, I know the score here, I just want to see how much lunacy I can get them to spin out in the shortest possible time.

Well Mueller happend to be presenting pretty bad intelligence back then, didnt he?

He sure did. Clearly that means he's always wrong, yeah?

You think Scott Ritter lacks credibility?

That article certainly lacks credibility. Ritter is either not really familiar with the process here or is deliberately attempting to mislead his audience.
 
Funnily it looks like Ritter's been in legal trouble for trying to diddle kids who turned out to be undercover cops. I suppose that's not really relevant to his credibility here but his bio on TruthDig sure doesn't mention it!
 
e sure did. Clearly that means he's always wrong, yeah?
Muller is undoubtedly quite a brilliant man but who says he was wrong?
 
At Helsinki Putin was asked by a reporter 1) if he wanted Trump to win and 2) if he had his staff make an effort to support his victory. In the Official White House transcript, the first question about Putin wanting Trump to win was edited out. It was also edited out of the video. In the Russian version, the entire question and answer exchange was edited out.
 
There is absolutely no doubt that Russia interfered with US elections, but the extent to which it did remains unknown. I have read some conspiracy theories in American media which stipulated that Trump's visit to Russia in the early 90's (or late 80's, don't remember) was basically the first step in planning a large-scale overthrow of US democracy, and the next almost 30 years Russia was just waiting for the right opportunity to strike. As wild as it is, at this point in history I wouldn't rule this out as a possibility, though a very very wild one.

Also, the story with Maria Butina offering sex for government jobs is pretty hilarious and cringe, as it is something I would expect a Russian spy woman do. This is textbook Russian behavior. It's even funnier when you consider how recently one our politician said that Russian women should not sleep with foreigners during the World Cup, but I guess it's ok for Maria Butina to sleep with Americans because it's for the MOTHERLAND. :lol:

And it's funny to see the media's reaction this meeting. American media is bashing Trump as a traitor, yet his approval rating hit all-time high. Meanwhile Russian media talked about this summit as a pinnacle of Putin's statesmanship and ability to negotiate even with the toughest opponents, celebrating Putin as the sole person suited to guide Russia.

Please, give me another world to live in.
 
There is absolutely no doubt that Russia interfered with US elections, but the extent to which it did remains unknown. I have read some conspiracy theories in American media which stipulated that Trump's visit to Russia in the early 90's (or late 80's, don't remember) was basically the first step in planning a large-scale overthrow of US democracy, and the next almost 30 years Russia was just waiting for the right opportunity to strike. As wild as it is, at this point in history I wouldn't rule this out as a possibility, though a very very wild one.

Also, the story with Maria Butina offering sex for government jobs is pretty hilarious and cringe, as it is something I would expect a Russian spy woman do. This is textbook Russian behavior. It's even funnier when you consider how recently one our politician said that Russian women should not sleep with foreigners during the World Cup, but I guess it's ok for Maria Butina to sleep with Americans because it's for the MOTHERLAND. :lol:

And it's funny to see the media's reaction this meeting. American media is bashing Trump as a traitor, yet his approval rating hit all-time high. Meanwhile Russian media talked about this summit as a pinnacle of Putin's statesmanship and ability to negotiate even with the toughest opponents, celebrating Putin as the sole person suited to guide Russia.

Please, give me another world to live in.

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Wow, i have a friend that looks very much like her! She is bulgarian though :D
 
Hard to swallow pills: the US capitalists are destroying democracy in the US, not the Russians
 
Hard to swallow pills: the US capitalists are destroying democracy in the US, not the Russians

This is only a problem if you operate on the assumption democracy is always "good". I don't operate on that assumption anymore since we have seen in recent decades that democracies are not only terribly inefficient at governing (especially in a crisis), but they are prone to corruption that tends to go unpunished since the people operate under the assumption that everything is being done according to their will.
 
First of all, I think the actual effect of these shenanigans on election results was negligible overall. Of course, there is no way of being certain, especially with the result having been as close as it was.
What matters is that Kremlin did what it could to advance one of the candidates. It is obvious, that in doing so they hardly had best interests of US in mind.
I think you may be underestimating Kremlin here. Just compare it to takeover of Crimea which was practica flawless.
Framing this in terms of "simple truth having influenced the election" is nonsense. Leaking the dirty laundry of just one party in a campaign has nothing to do with being fair and transparent, especially since the leaks had very little in a way of actual substance.
Well if the leaks had no substance then there is no problem right?
I dont see connection between Kremlin and Wikileaks at all. Thats quite a nonsense and plain distraction.
You keep forgeting Trump is the most investigated man in US history - and the results are pathetic.
 
Why not both?

Because the Russians are pathetic and weak. Just read Mueller's indictments to see how much better at computer stuff the US is than the Russians.

There's no doubt that the Russians have given the US capitalists a significant leg up by helping to install Trump. But the US business class has been relentlessly trying to destroy democracy in the US since the 1970s if not earlier. Most liberals who can't stomach my anticapitalism want to pretend the problem is coterminous with Trump, and that the substance of the problem is that Trump is a Russian agent.

I'm here to tell you, it's not so. Our problems aren't going to go away when Trump exits the stage. They're not going to go away even if we take all the practical, non-sexy cybersecurity measures to protect our elections from Russian hacking. They're not going to go away if we bring back HUAC and engage in a McCarthy-style purge of Russian agents from positions of power and influence.
 
I am not advocating for a purge. I am just recognizing the fact that Russia is always interested in weakening the US. But ya we will collapse ourselves without their help if things continue this way.
 
I am just recognizing the fact that Russia is always interested in weakening the US.

I'm not denying it. Nor am I denying that they in fact took action to weaken the US. What I'm denying is the degree of relative significance attributed to this by pro-capitalist liberals.
 
It's honestly hard to even navigate the political landscape now. There are these people obsessed with Russia (*cough* CNN *cough*) and the people who outright deny any sort of collusion. The first group obviously is oblivious to the capitalist status quo and the internal problems we are facing as a country, while the other group is oblivious to just everything or are the wealthy and powerful trying to manipulate the public opinion away from the real issues and channel it into non-issues, like immigration or the civility discourse and some other crap.
 
This is only a problem if you operate on the assumption democracy is always "good". I don't operate on that assumption anymore since we have seen in recent decades that democracies are not only terribly inefficient at governing (especially in a crisis), but they are prone to corruption that tends to go unpunished since the people operate under the assumption that everything is being done according to their will.
You're not exactly wrong there....
Winston_Churchill said:
Democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…
https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/quotes/the-worst-form-of-government/
 
I am not even looking forward to November because I am too afraid that some corporate Democrats will get elected, and even if they block every executive order by Trump, which is a great thing and I foresee lots of tweets about it, they won't challenge the status quo, unless every single one of them is Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, but even she changed her opinions a bunch after being elected, so... we are doomed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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